am I good? Or, in which Hydra wants reassurance that he isn't the stupidest one in an internet fight

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by tinyhydra, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. tinyhydra

    tinyhydra a dingus

    So, I got into an internet fight, because I have little self control these days, and I'm worried. Just in general.

    here’s some fever-based ramblings about kylo ren
    i really need to spell this out for people. kylo ren is extraordinarily dysfunctional, and reylo in the form in which it currently exists, with what we have been given in the films, is extremely dysfunctional.

    kylo ren is the epitome of a big ego and a sense of entitlement. arguably he’s not a bad person: its just a symptom of a bigger problem. but that doesn’t exonerate him from his actions. HE KILLED HIS FATHER. that’s not something you should write off easily, because otherwise you’re effectively buying into the toxic culture we currently exist in where men are allowed and forgiven for literal murder. that’s the entire point of kylo ren’s character, and by erasing that, you’re ignoring a massive part of what that character is meant to represent.

    star wars is and has always been massively allegorical (cough SPACE NAZIS) and you can’t woobify the shit out of kylo and expect him to still have the same meaning.

    that being said, i think that kylo loves rey in the way that a dysfunctional man loves a woman who’s better than him. he’s attracted to both her power and her innocence, and its extremely fucked up. my opinions about reylo are extremely complicated and too much for me to post on this godforsaken hellsite, but rest assured as much as i love him as a character i don’t strip him of his characterization in order to justify a ship with both people have tried to kill each other.

    “men are allowed and forgiven for literal murder,” no, not really. That’s super not how it is, my dude. Normal average human dudes don’t get a murder free pass for being dudes, that’s fucking ludicrous.

    Also, “ star wars is and has always been massively allegorical “ is true, but it doesn’t support your arguments. You’re talking like Kylo killing his dad has to be taken seriously as a literal patricide and treated like how we’d treat a patricide irl. That doesn’t track. Star Wars is allegorical, yeah, which means that real life drama gets blown up to extreme proportions. A more serious, grounded version of the Sequel trilogy wouldn’t have Kylo kill his dad, it’d be something like, Kylo robs his dad blind and spends the money on drugs or some shit.

    Also also, you are taking how people react to a dumbshit space soap opera for children very seriously. It’s just a fucking children’s movie series, my dude. It’s not the end of the world if some folks decide they want an evil space prince to kiss a girl. Hell, last trilogy had the main character literally choke his pregnant wife to unconsciousness, and the planet spins on. It’s just honestly not that goddamned serious.

    idk where to begin with this bc as tempting as it is to take your ‘argument’ sentence by sentence and dismantle it bc its riddled with logical fallacies but i’ll try and do it in point form to save us both some time.

    - men ARE forgiven for murder, oj simpson killed his wife and got away with it. the crux of the anthropocene in which we currently find ourselves is that men keep getting away with murder in various forms.

    - so…because its an allegory for nazism we shouldn’t make kylo accountable for his actions. what the fuck

    - “ you are taking how people react to a dumbshit space soap opera for children very seriously” and yet you’re the one responding to MY post with a bunch of fallacious bullshit that doesn’t make sense. read some lore. star wars was a sci-fi film and it was not originally targeted for children. children’s films as we know and understand them now did not exist in 1977. take a look at anything for ‘children’ in that era and you’ll find stuff with startling adult themes.

    im not the one who doesn’t seem to be aware its ‘not that goddamned serious’. i am, however, someone who happens to be aware that what people see in the media has an effect on their daily life, and i don’t want yet another generation of young women growing up and thinking that being in a relationship with a manipulative, entitled asshole who treats you like garbage bc he’s ‘damaged’ is okay.

    i love kylo ren. i even think reylo is not a bad idea! but holy god, let’s not pretend kylo isn’t a shitlord. because he is.

    normal, average men aren’t. Rich men are. Men of power and privilege, because getting away with murder is a class and race based thing, not gender. And “anthropochine” is a proposed term for the period of time in which humans started effecting climate change. Is that the word you mean to use? Because it’s not about dudes getting away with murder, it’s about industrialization.

    It’s not an allegory for Nazism. Star Wars has never been about Nazism. It’s always been a space fairy tale for children. The Nazi imagery is a popular shorthand for evil. It’s not about Nazis, who have a specific ideology which is not reflected in either the Empire or the First Order. It’s about telling the audience at a glance that this is a bunch of terrible terrible fuckers, and you oughta be rooting for their deaths.

    It’s always been a coming of age fantasy story set in space. And you find “startlingly adult themes” in children’s media all the time. I don’t understand why you think this means it’s not ultimately for kids and supposed to speak to a childish audience. It’s not about Nazis. It’s not about genocide or patricide or dealing with that, it’s about being a kid and growing up and how all that feels from a child’s perspective.

    Like, okay, the First Order is basically a carbon copy of the Empire, right? Would you argue that the Empire is literally meant to represent Nazis? Because that’d mean that Star Wars is ultimately the story of a young white man forgiving his father for being a genocidal racist because he ultimately couldn’t bring himself to see his own son killed.

    Or, you could not take the story that seriously, and see it as an allegory for growing up, being disillusioned and finding out that the authority figures in your life are as ultimately failable and human as you are, and learning from their mistakes and moving forward.

    Media reflects and reinforces notions we already have, it doesn’t shape them whole cloth. The people who create media are a part of the cultures they were born in, and the works they create are based on what already exists. Stopping bad relationships from existing in movies won’t stop bad relationships from existing at all, and thinking that is just some naive pop bullshit that’s gotten weirdly pervasive in recent years.

    Besides, I don’t see how people can argue that Rey and Kylo’s relationship in TLJ reinforces the idea that women ought to stay with people who hurt them. Like, the simple fact of the matter is Rey leaves him when he behaves badly. She even straight up tells the audience that she’s going to him because she thinks her relationship with him will make him a better man, and she fails, because it’s not only not her job as a woman to save his soul, it’s not possible for her to do it at all. The movie agrees with you! It also doesn’t want women staying with men who hurt them on the off chance that they’ll magically become good dudes if you love them hard enough.

    Am I good?
  2. tinyhydra

    tinyhydra a dingus

    Eh, I just went ahead and blocked them cause I didn't wanna continue the conversation. I dunno if that's good, but I'm gonna pretend it is and move on with my life cause I am not so good at not allowing shit like this to just consume all my goddamned brainpower. Lesson learned, will get back to just ignoring folks who say dumb bullshit. Or, I'll at least try a little harder.
  3. Emma

    Emma Your resident resident

    Which one of these is you?
  4. tinyhydra

    tinyhydra a dingus

    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  5. Emma

    Emma Your resident resident

    Oh yeah. You're definitely good.
    • Like x 1
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