Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Feb 22, 2017.
Can we not compare things that aren't cults to cults.
kinda creeped out, actually. I'll take the honest rage over platitudes, tyvm
I don't believe it has happened.
I have been talking with wiwaxia for the past few hours privately. Originally, I was going to just pastebin the whole conversation and let people make up their minds, but that was a bad idea conceived in frustration and one I am glad I didn't go through with, the conversation got pretty personal on both sides.
Their motivation comes from a desire to protect people and an ideological position, and they did not understand how voicing that position when having a history of advocating for tighter rules and punishment would terrify the fuck out of a lot of people with various flavors of brainweird. I think they do now, and have stated they are considering what I have said.
Most of our conflicts on the forum come from trying to respond to clashes between people on the macro level rather than the micro. People feeling unheard? You need to engage with people individually to hear them. That is something seebs is very good at!
Seebs is not very good at addressing a crowd. Attempting catch-all solutions for complaints that are, by nature, inherently personal is never going to end well.
If it ever did happen that someone turned up who was calmly and methodically cruel, it would be a hell of a lot more destructive than meltdowns. Calm and sustained cruelty is someone looking through a thread, finding a personal weakness, and expertly tailoring their attack to make the victim feel as much like a non-person as possible. That kind of shit is considerably harder to recover from both in the short term and in the long run.
I'll take a perfectly timed example of my point for $5, please xD
I never compared to a cult. Read the words I actually typed.
Comparing shunning being acceptable in a forum vs a cult is still using a cult as an example. Also, do not talk to me that way when I was perfectly respectful.
Has seebs actually gone on her vacation yet and recovered enough spoons to consider it? I kinda figured she'd made a different thread for that when she was ready to discuss it. Or just decide something herself.
But when a thread is made, I'll definitely be talking in it!
There was more to it than that. And even if it was just "reassure people", just because you didn't like the suggestion or don't think it will work, doesn't mean that no one has suggested anything that isn't banning
That's good to hear! This is what I was hoping would happen when I suggested not-seebs people hurt by their suggestions talk to them.
probably tapping out for the night fyi
Read my words. There was no comparison. I said that shunning is only acceptable in cults. At no point in any of those words was there a comparison to forums.
As for tone - you do realize you are on a forum full of autistics that do not have much of a concept of 'tone' for text, and talking specifically to a nonverbal autistic that goes through a very long process to get from words to thinkings then back to words again?
Although rereading it with tone in mind, I still don't see a problem. I did not make a comparison, you inferred one that did not exist.
I was merely insulting the use of shunning by relegating it to a tool of cults.
To this specific forum, in which "shunning is a bad thing only bad cults do, not a forum like ours."
And? If I have a problem I can say so. Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean one can't exist.
Rule of thumb: if its not about cults, don't bring up cults.
That rule doesn't exist as a universal consensus. You may wish to have that rule in your interactions, but that does not obligate me to follow it.
Shunning is a tool of cults to force people to conform to their way of thinking/acting. That is its use in the offline world.
It is a silencing tactic. It is an offensive weapon. It is not a valid tool for people that wish to work together and accept differing views.
This is the line that @leo is claiming I intended to mean to compare this forum to cults, in case anyone cares.
I do believe this is a clear case of words being twisted to mean something they do not say.
I think that was unintentional and there's a miscommunication going on here
I thought so at first, but after I responded and suggested @leo reread my words @leo responded with
which is clearly reiterating a version of what I said that does not follow the actual text.
still, i don't think it's a good idea to assume ill intent - I read the thing the way you meant it to be read, there is apparently a disconnect for leo, who I believe is now sleeping or attempting too
i'd be happy to help debug it later
Kay - I go walk with Ancient Guardian (he likes to pollute the city with his pipe smoke before bedtime) and then sleep. If debugging is wanted I'm amenable later.
have a good walk!
Cool, then I can call you an asshole since, you know, there happens to be actual cult survivors on this forum. Who probably don't apperciate it being brought up in petty Internet drama, of all things.
Or is that only fair when you do it.
Shunning is also used in bullying, which is a common experience, so stop saying it's what the EVIL BAD cults do or whatever. It was a bad and tasteless comparison, and acting as though it was the only one is.
I'm not going to blame someone for not exactly wanting to help people who have tried to suicide bait and threatened to stalk others. If the suicide baiter is allowed a pass on their actions of literally trying to kill people due to brainbugs, why not Wax when they bring up shunning?
If you're going to assume that the rage is honest, and the "platitudes" aren't, that's 100% on you, not on me. I absolutely will not try to make up for "and then people assume I'm lying despite years of evidence that I mean exactly what I say on this topic".
I've seen calm and sustained cruelty. It hasn't always been overt, but it's been there. And it's never gotten even a hint of a suggestion of a shun.
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