charter peanut gallery

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Feb 22, 2017.

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  1. Ana Nimus

    Ana Nimus Well-Known Member

    Thank you for acknowledging this. It's seriously frustrating to see you complain about people asking for bans as if that was the only thing people wanted and making claims like "I've asked and asked and asked for any concrete suggestions of things, I've opened the floor to suggestions, and out of dozens of requests that someone suggest a thing, the sum total of responses I've gotten suggesting an actual course of action other than banning has been pretty much nothing." when you (presumably) had me on ignore when I tried to make a suggestion. Because no one making suggestions other than banning is factually untrue. You've gotten multiple suggestions on ways to handle such blowups better

    Now go take your damn break for real this time!
     
    • Like x 3
  2. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

     
  3. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    If only people would stop making demands of Seebs in the policy thread that he feels weirdly obligated to respond to. Almost like they're directed at him. ;p

    I really feel like the topic has been done to death, that's why I'm mostly in here breaking up fights.

    You're right, this isn't a hotline, Seebs isn't a social worker or a therapist. He's also not a teacher, a parent, or some sort of idol. When people start expecting him in those roles things go badly.

    What Seebs actually is is some strange sort of idealist. He enjoys talking about his ideals, I'm sure everyone has notice. He's not currently elegant at defending those ideals, and that's going to happen what with all the humans around here. But I don't think you can expect the forum based off of some guy's idealism to not include discussion, dissection, and defence of those things. (Messy, embarrassing, emotionally draining, and sometimes totally fucking nonsense discussion, dissection, and defence, yes.)

    Seebs' health is a concern, for sure. We keep trying to get him to take breaks, but people keep making demands that he do this, or say that, or be such and such. You can't say "Staff must do x" and "Seebs go rest" back and forth over and over and expect that to be restful.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
    • Like x 13
  4. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

    hell, if you're going to do that, might as well go all the way and get it engraved. be my guest, so long as you preface it w "on a forum that claims to be welcoming"
    you and beldaran have stated the difference between anything you could do in this case and what you do w users on moderation, which is that for every person on moderation a consensus had been reached that putting that restriction on them was necessary or beneficial.

    but other than that, clearly there's no difference whatsoever between hounding a user until they leave of their own accord and working w a user to curb behaviors that hurt ppl. (I already know that you're going to give me shit about all the things Wax has done and why it would be necessary, and let me just say rn that I don't care. this isn't actually about Wax as far as I'm concerned, it's about how you're bending over backwards to justify a shitty response to a user saying something you don't like)
    I think you misread, or misunderstood. I said that I didn't want to get involved in the discussion around what Wax said, or anything between the two of you. and I still don't. as a rule, I try not to get in the middle of fights between two other ppl. I had more than enough of that during my parents' divorce
    oh, but every one of them was absolutely sincere about their welcomes. a welcome w caveats is still a welcome. that the caveats in those cases were shitty and abusive doesn't actually change that. is it rly any different to say "you're welcome here, so long as you don't kill anyone?" does the condition that you not commit murder actually detract from the welcome?
    I didn't think that you were accusing Wax, but if you're going to make an accusation you'd damn well be prepared to back it up w proof
     
  5. evilas

    evilas Sure, I'll put a custom title here

    Oh for fuck's sake guys, I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. Everyone, please take a 24-hour break. Please. It'll make this better.
    If I was a mod, what I'd do right now would be lock the thread and start a new one tomorrow afternoon. From scratch. Please. Just, one argument at a time.
    I honestly have no idea what Rigs wants, what Leo wants, what Seebs wants, what Grimsqueaker wants, or what anyone else wants anymore. Take a break, and I do mean everyone take a break, in 24 hours start fresh, and deal with one argument at a time. Please.

    EDIT: ideally, 90% of these would be 1-on-1's on TCHGB.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
    • Like x 9
  6. michinyo

    michinyo On that Dumb Bitch Juice diet

    [​IMG]

    (for the record eric is not garbage, this was the first gif that came to mind)
     
    • Like x 10
  7. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    I'm going back to the beach. That water slide ain't gonna build itself.
     
    • Like x 9
  8. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

    for the sake of clarity, and near as I can tell:
    • leo wants seebs to not treat him like shit
    • seebs wants to defend their husband
    • rigs wants to build a waterslide and also wants seebs to put on their own oxygen mask
    • the thing that squeaks wants seebs to stop justifying bad behavior, since getting them to add a few more mods isn't actually going anywhere
    edit: I think seebs also wants for ppl to stop behaving badly long enough for them to feel comfortable taking a break from things
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
    • Like x 10
  9. evilas

    evilas Sure, I'll put a custom title here

    Ok, awesome. Now that this is all cleared up, can we please take that 24-hour break?

    (EDIT: whoops I hope I didn't sound dismissive, that was genuinely helpful. I just really want that break to be taken)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
    • Like x 4
  10. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

    yeah, ok
     
    • Like x 1
  11. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    Actually, can we maybe actually pause and not clarify for people who aren't speaking for themselves? I know I totally do the translation/clarification thing given half an excuse, but I'm pretty sure that this is an incomplete picture of what leo wants, a very incomplete picture of what seebs wants, a moderately accurate version of what rigs wants, and I probably ought to assume that squeaks has a pretty decent idea of what squeaks wants. But I think trying to clarify what other people want at a time when multiple people are having issues telling what anyone wants anymore is likely to make things even messier. I'm already operating at high confusion levels, but I am also (very slightly) even more confused after this latest clarification attempt.

    eta: ninja'd on the pause suggestion, but I am really truly genuinely more confused the more people try to clarify on behalf of other folks, especially when for a person they've been disagreeing at length with
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
    • Like x 4
  12. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    It still might clear up miscommunication to know what folks are thinking other people want
     
    • Like x 2
  13. leo

    leo Well-Known Member

    No, that's basically it. I'd also like for Seebs to take an actual break, but I was rather clear, multiple times, that I wanted an apology.
     
    • Like x 3
  14. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

    yes this

    between stating my own understanding, or potential misunderstanding, and taking a break from this, maybe things can get resolved?
     
    • Like x 1
  15. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    Okay then, I'm still pretty sure it's an EXTREMELY small part of what Seebs wants, and even if clarifying what other people mean could help, can we please leave it for tomorrow and just do the pause?

    (I guess I am nothing if not a hypocrite, so: leo, I have been following the discussion all the way through and yes I knew you wanted an apology, but it's been tangled up in a lot of other words, so I don't think you've been clear. I've been under the impression that you've been angling for lots of other things in the conversation even if I haven't been able to follow what, and this was the first hint I've gotten that was the only big thing you were after. I've also seen you ask for like three or more apologies today, from all sorts of ranges of things, from this all the way down to 'person thought I was being a jerk,' plus it's been a major element in multiple other recent conversations I've watched you have, and it's starting to ring as empty conversational space. I'm not saying this as a demand to change or clarify or whatever, but I've been having trouble following your words, and this one semi-clear element is repeated so frequently that my brain is just... not parsing it anymore)
     
    • Like x 6
  16. leo

    leo Well-Known Member

    My last post before Eric sited everything, Spock. Also you might imagine it's hard for me to debate when I'm constantly being disrespected.
     
  17. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

    @spockandawe yeah, that's fair, and I edited the post to add a bit more of my understanding of what seebs wants

    anyways I'm gonna do the thing where I actually take a break from this now
     
    • Like x 3
  18. leo

    leo Well-Known Member

    Here it is, as a refresher.
     
  19. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I'm not particularly interested in "defending" Jesse, just in pointing out that he has zero interest in forum drama.

    And honestly, it's not that I want people to "stop behaving badly". I want people to accept that behaving badly is a thing that happens, and that they don't need to pretend it's not bad, or justify it, or excuse it, they can just say "yeah, that's where i am right now" and start working on fixing it. That works! And instead of trying to figure out all the ways that we could "prove" or at least argue that someone's Bad is a kind of Intentional Bad that means they need to go in the pear-wiggler, we could just, you know, either try to help or not.
     
    • Like x 7
  20. evilas

    evilas Sure, I'll put a custom title here

    Great! We now all have a general idea of what everyone else wants. Can you join us in the break now please, Seebs?

    EDIT: Again, not being dismissive, genuinely helpful, I just really want that break to be had.
     
    • Like x 4
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