Chat rules

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by hoarmurath, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Realized I had no particularly good reason not to close the account as requested, set password to random noise.
     
  2. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya your purple friend

    i've always had a distaste for big, fast-moving skype chats, since i can't proccess words, think of a response, and then type it out before a topic has long since moved on. i'm much lessed stressed when i can take things at my own pace.

    that stuff like this can happen uncontrollably really makes me want to continue putting off setting up skype even more.

    i might set it up eventually since there are some kintsugi members i enjoy talking to who prefer skype chats to the conversation system here, but after seeing the aftermath of whatever happened here, i'll have to resolve myself to stay away from any of these main chats
     
  3. hoarmurath

    hoarmurath Thor's Hammer

    @jacktrash

    Why is it a slapfight if I respond to her? I admit I have not been being very nice, but if I keep getting constantly accused of being several things I am not in my own damn thread, then I am going to refute that. I am not going to shut up just because someone might be severely upset that I am responding to them.

    You might find that derailing, I don't.

    Kijikun's decision to leave is hers. If she wants to do that just because out of like 400 people, one person dared to directly disagree with her and defend their points, that's not my problem.

    I am actually been trying to stop talking about my leaving the bloody chat, I said so like three pages ago, but if I keep getting accused and constantly read in bad faith, I am not going to shut up.

    (And now I am just repeating my points, so I am going to stop for the moment.)

    @Ipuntya

    I've been having fun talking to people in one-on-one skype conversations, those should generally move fairly slowly, and I think most people are quite happy to have a new person to talk to.

    ***

    Can we please stop the "you don't know how that makes me feel/you shouldn't be around abused/mentally ill/disabled people" thing? Because if you come in here claiming stuff that I know is blatantly untrue about me, I am going to respond because being silent means I am agreeing. Even if that means an escalation.

    It would be genuinely awesome if people could discuss what can be done about the chat as it is now.

    Again, I am not approaching this calmly and detachedly, I am not fighting with anyone for the lolz. Last night (Europe time) was actually quite unpleasant for me, but I ended up identifying something that really bothered me about the situation and made the decision not to quiet down.

    (That said, if anyone's still interested in the other chatroom, PM me. And I am still up for private skype chats, I don't actually get this acidic unless I am quite upset.)
     
    • Like x 2
  4. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Seems sort of unfair to give a somewhat hostile and negative reading of her actions when she's not here to defend herself? I think it's really clear that she absolutely did not leave because "one person dared to directly disagree with her". She'd had a lot of distress related to multiple conflicts that happened here in the past, this was not a new thing.
     
    • Like x 2
  5. hoarmurath

    hoarmurath Thor's Hammer

    I do understand that. Sadly, some things are unfair. I am not very interested in being very fair to her at the moment. That's how I saw the conflict. I disagreed, in a fairly sharp manner and not very kindly, but I do not know what else I could have done that would not have undermined my own experience at the moment.

    I do read a lot of Kintsugi nearly daily, I do not personally keep track of the conflicts and issues every user has had. That is not my responsibility. I don't know if it is anyone's responsibility. I generally reject the notion of being responsible for other people's stuff, because that way lies the abuse dragons of yore, for me. It is my responsibility to try not to be an asshole to people who don't deserve it, and I sometimes fail at not being an asshole.

    It could be argued that I have the role to be the more measured and calm one, but I don't agree with that anymore. Last night sort of eradicated that idea in my head. I can outline my larger reasons in PMs because I don't want to get into my laundry here. Is that all right?
     
  6. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I, too, generally reject the notion of being responsible for other people's stuff, which is why the whole thread sort of bugs me, because of the implication that it is my obligation to somehow moderate a chat in a medium which to the best of my knowledge does not have any mechanism by which it can be moderated.

    And while it is not your responsibility to keep up with all the conflicts and drama, I think it is your responsibility to, if you have not done so, refrain from offering a characterization of another user's behavior which logically implies that you are aware that they have not had other conflicts.
     
    • Like x 4
  7. hoarmurath

    hoarmurath Thor's Hammer

    Well, that's why I kept mentioning IRC since I think we arrived quite quickly to the fact that Skype has limitations.

    I don't think you have the obligation in itself to moderate a chat or the current chat, esp in the currently limited medium.

    But I do think you have a bigger responsibility in terms of what goes on here than others, since you created the environment. But the notions of how much does being an administrator/moderator give you responsibility towards the forum are a topic for another time and probably not something I am good to discuss, because I have not ever been in your situation. Now as to how forum politics and administration applies to somewhat informal chats, yet another matter to discuss. But probably not mine, since like I said, I don't have the experience. But the chat does connect back to Kintsugi and it does affect how things happen here. I get that expectations bug you, and they'd likely bug me too, but that is how it feels like to me at the moment.

    Okay. I am willing to admit that my characterisation of "she left because I disagreed with her" is reductive and to my current understanding, factually incorrect. It is. I should not have said that. I do stand by everything else I have said, though.

    I am somewhat uncomfortable in that I might be perceived as a bully only because I refused to stop talking, and because I said what I honestly thought. And that was the final straw for another user. (That is what I understand to have happened, okay?) I find the implication that one can only be troubled by certain things happening only if they themselves are a pure judging able person quite reductive and dishonest. I am not saying you are implying that, but she was. And it is hurtful.

    And I am actually quite disappointed that you and Jesse seem to be saying what I should not say or infer about her, but there is no comment on how out of line she was. The fact that she left is actually quite irrelevant in regards to this. I am expecting you to comment because due to the nature of the forum, this is likely to happen again, with a different set of participants. Comment on what she said too, please. It's not about her, it's about other people who might do the "you are like this, therefore you cannot have an opinion about this" thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
  8. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I am less comfortable with talking about what she said because I know she was upset by being misunderstood, and it's hard for me to get clarification now. I suspect that you have gotten an inaccurate impression of what she meant to communicate, but I don't know for sure. To some extent, I think the key point I'd make is that I don't think she was trying to say what you are like, but to tell you how you were coming across, which is a different thing. And I did get a somewhat similar impression from some of it, even though I am pretty sure the impression is inaccurate; it really did sort of sound a bit like "we shouldn't have all these disruptive people acting up". And I don't think you meant it that way, but I think Kiji's point was that it was easy to read it that way.

    I personally like IRC, but I am not sure about our options for having a moderateable chat on a network that people can reasonably access, etcetera.
     
  9. jacktrash

    jacktrash spherical sockbox

    we're not a unified front. don't attribute seebs's posts to me.

    nah. i was just pointing out that people were trying to solve the problem you made the thread about, and you weren't participating in that discussion anymore, just fighting. and i'm getting the impression that being able to keep arguing is an important skill you're working on, and if that's what you wanna do here, hey, there's no rules. remember? we don't put people on moderation except at their own request.

    frankly, bro, i have had multiple clinic visits per week for several weeks and will do so for several more, and i'm overloaded, cranky, busy, and sore. figuring out what you're inferring from what and addressing how you may or may not feel about it is WAY beyond my capabilities at the moment, and asking me to judge someone's meltdown/flounce text is like. hahahaha. no. that's not gonna happen.
     
    • Like x 2
  10. Socratease

    Socratease Well-Known Member

    Wait, we have a chat?
     
    • Like x 3
  11. Void

    Void on discord. Void#4020

    Yes, we have several Skype chats.
     
  12. hoarmurath

    hoarmurath Thor's Hammer

    @seebs

    Yes, and I know how I was coming across. I did not need to be told how I was. I knew. It was why posting has been hard, because I know I am running against a lot of people's feelings. I think I have a different perception of what a chatroom is supposed to be like.

    My main problem with her was the comment where she essentially called me a jerk normie and implied an artificial actually false boundary between me and the rest of the users. That is what I am asking you to comment on. Is it okay to be "you are just a normie who doesn't get it" at other people? Because uhh...I don't think it is?

    @jacktrash

    I did not mean to imply that. I do see you as separate people, and I think in my last post I made the mistake of not tagging anyone. Did that give you the impression I was unite-fronting you guys? I did not mean to. I apologise and will keep it better in mind for the future.

    I was fighting. Because I was being fought with. Yup. It's important to me! I was trying to stop, but uhh, not the best impulse control at the moment?

    That sounds really busy and sucky. I hope it gets better for you. Take care of yourself. And I don't expect you to do address my stuff at the moment, I've been dealing with my feelings with other people's help, mostly. I have people I can talk to, privately.

    @michinyo

    You rub me the wrong way too.

    I am going to put you on ignore and never respond to you in the forum or any other medium again, because I am not interested in talking to you. You think one thing. I think the other. You find me abrasive, I find you hard to deal with.

    We will only set each other off if we talk. I don't want that to happen.
     
  13. hoarmurath

    hoarmurath Thor's Hammer

    Peacing out for tonight.

    Reachable on skype if you want IRC deets or to chat. (hoarmurath is the nick you can look for.)
     
  14. blue

    blue hightown funk you up

    for when you come back, then:
    is this not... Seebs commenting on the thing you object to his not commenting on?
     
  15. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    It's okay to truthfully express your feelings about how other people are coming across. I am not sure that the inference of that boundary between you and other people is precisely valid, and she's not here to comment, so I don't know whether she meant that implication. But I am okay with people saying a thing they believe, and if it's wrong it can be rebutted or corrected.

    What gave me that impression, anyway, was: "And I am actually quite disappointed that you and Jesse seem to be saying what I should not say or infer about her, but there is no comment on how out of line she was."

    "You and Jesse seem to be saying" implies that we are saying the same thing, I think?
     
  16. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    I thought about writing a big ol' thing here, but decided to just say, "No".
     
    • Like x 7
  17. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    I once saw seebs & jjt do that "Wonder Twins Powers - Activate!" thing once.

    But they've never done that Rif Raff & Magenta thing, at least in my presence.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Which Rif Raff and Magenta thing? There were quite a few.
     
    • Like x 2
  19. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    That thing
     
    • Like x 1
  20. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I would like to caution against the idea of shaming people for using the ignore feature. It depends on what people's goals are in using this site. There isn't one right and good way to be here on the forum, and if someone decides that they want to spend their free time enjoying a recreational activity like social media or forums then they should tailor that experience to fulfill their needs.

    There are drawbacks to doing the ignore thing. There are also drawbacks to not doing that. I, personally, mostly just interact with my friends and give advice here (and make sad noises sometimes), I'm not here to listen to every single thing every person says and attempt to learn from the patterns of what would end up being random noise if I tried to do that.

    It depends on the individual, and I don't think that setting up one way of being here as better than the other will be helpful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
    • Like x 11
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