Chat rules

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by hoarmurath, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I have seen several people being burned out or feeling obligated to help, so yes, it is a real concern.

    But I like Beldaran's idea, in general.
    • Like x 2
  2. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    For anecdata purposes: Yes, I am in that boat. I have left all chats except the 'light' chat, and have been mostly inactive on the forum, specifically for this reason. I am aware of a couple of other people who feel similarly, but I do not have permission to name them publicly at this time.

    The trouble I have been having is that any time that chat flares up into drama and I'm online, I will have five or six people contacting me directly for advice/deconstruction/calming down. All at once. For hours. This is not obvious from within the chat itself, but it's exhausting.

    It is very difficult to tell someone who's literally going "help, talk to me so I don't cut myself up with a knife right now" to go away. Like, it's not a maturity and a responsibility thing. I understand that EMTs specifically have classes on this sort of thing, because it's hard.

    Especially when those people are personal friends who one very much likes - it's just that having five emotionally charged, intellectually exhausting conversations at once is difficult and tiring.

    (And for the record, folks, I am likely to be very slow and erratic in responses for the foreseeable future, probably at least a couple weeks. I am extremely overloaded and will comment when I've got spoons, but it's not gonna be reliable.)
    • Like x 3
  3. kmoss

    kmoss whoops

    Is it possible to have a few people tag teaming for vent-y reasons?

    Hm. Actually, no, I can see there are issues with that. My brain went "relay race counseling!" and i had to sit it in a corner till it calmed down.

    It's currently summer for me, which means that I have a lot more spoons than any other time of year, so I was tempted to go "hey! I'll help out with venting etc", but that seems kind of cavalier, and also I am *not* a licensed anything, since BA in psych doesn't actually qualify me for, well, anything.

    I wish there was an easy way to shuffle everyone around until it was all perfect, but sadly for my brain, life does not actually work that way.

    #I just basically rambled for four paragraphs #sorry #just got off work and going to dinner later so haven't eaten yet
    • Like x 2
  4. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    So, coming back to this:

    I think the recent dramasplosion gives significant weight to the observation that the chats have problems the forum does not. Serious problems.

    So basically, I think this supports the observation that the state of the chats is a problem, and I am not sure whether it can be fixed. What I do think we might be able to do is leverage the forum environment/community as a tool for trying to help fix things that got broken by chat drama.

    There was a tumblr post about an island in a lake, and people who were fighting were sent there and not allowed to leave until they had resolved their dispute, and while that might be overdoing it, I wonder whether we should consider a forum-for-hashing-shit-out.
    • Like x 5
  5. Codeless

    Codeless Cheshire Cat

    That does sound like a good idea. Especially as "Take it to the forum" involves a lot less silencing than even temporarily banning folks.
    • Like x 4
  6. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Made the new forum for it, although it is not intended to be restricted to the chats.
    • Like x 3
  7. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    @Beldaran just bought up a really good point about this elsewhere and I'm going to quote that and offer my own thoughts on the subject.

    [3:41:30 PM] Beldaran ~: As a sort of maybe harsh observation, I feel like the chats might be being used to circumvent a lot of the... forum culture of measured and loving response to people by some. Like, wank doesn't thrive in the forum because of how everyone is, but in the chats...
    I left the chat last week, I think (maybe earlier? I don't have the brain for dates) and I did so primarily because it seemed to be becoming a hive of conflict. When I was still in the afterdark chat it was getting to the point where I could see people's recovery being undermined by the spirals they were getting into, and my own was being similarly affected as a result.
    I personally think that the afterdark chat needs to be segmented if it's going to continue. Form smaller groups for specific issues to people can join the ones they feel comfortable with, maybe.
    Too many different triggers in one place.
    • Like x 3
  8. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    Is it partly due to the speed of the chats? People can respond more quickly, which makes escalating easier to do.
    • Like x 1
  9. Codeless

    Codeless Cheshire Cat

    I´m pretty sure this is not intentional, but " used to circumvent" rather sounds like it´s being done intentionally. So I´d just like to point out that I very much doubt that´s the case.

    Also, so far I´ve hzeard of there being one other fight in afterdark, which I´m not in anymore, but the three others have been quiet. And I´d like to see if "Take it to the forums" helps anything before doing something as drastic as breaking up the chats.
    • Like x 2
  10. jacktrash

    jacktrash spherical sockbox

    i can't parse a lot of this, i need more specific and concrete wording. i'm not actually in the chats at the moment, but i would like to be able to brainstorm on possible solutions. from what you've said here, though, i can't begin to figure out what exactly the hell actually happens. also the 'some people' and 'certain parties' stuff comes across as really passive-aggressive and vaguebloggy, which is exactly the kind of thing that tends to prompt our bpd bros to get splitty and start thinking what you said is aimed at them; coupled with your extremely vague and convoluted sentence structure, folks could read just about any kind of accusation into it.

    would you be willing to rephrase with specifics?
    • Like x 1
  11. jacktrash

    jacktrash spherical sockbox

    thanks. it's not all you; i often get lost in sentences that don't include specifics. for instance: "It does but also happens from time to time and the parties change." <- what's 'it'? what does it do? it does but also happens; this 'it' is both 'doing' and 'happening' and these aren't the same? and the parties change -- i deduce this is either the parties who trigger or those who are triggered, and/or possibly the parties who use 'it' incorrectly -- a different 'it'? the same?

    aaaaand my brain dumps core and reboots. :P
  12. Codeless

    Codeless Cheshire Cat

    I´m in the same situation jesse is, so a words helper person would be good? But if you´re in a bad place, maybe go and take care of yourself first, we can wait.
  13. rorleuaisen

    rorleuaisen Frozen Dreamer

    Hi! Helpy word person! One of the concerns aD is having with clarifying is she is trying to avoid creating drama or specifically dragging people's names in to the mess. She also has a personal conflict she is not yet ready to deal with. It becomes difficult to give examples of specific behaviors without either being vague or calling people out. I do not have a solution to this particular problem, so if there are alternative ways someone can think to do this, we are all ears.
  14. jacktrash

    jacktrash spherical sockbox

    yeah, i dig. i understand not wanting to be a drama starter. but i don't think it's possible to come up with solutions without stating the problem. maybe it'd work to focus on events rather than people. people might recognize themselves from the descriptions of events, but if so, i'd appreciate it if they'd either hold off on commenting, or address events rather than people as well.

    honestly i would just like some of the variables filled in so i can parse the text.
  15. jacktrash

    jacktrash spherical sockbox

    btw, i'm gonna go have a leisurely swim now, so take your time and i may not check back for an hour or so.
  16. rorleuaisen

    rorleuaisen Frozen Dreamer

    I would also like to add that I thinkk this is a really good idea. People have a lot of different triggers and collecting them all in one place I think adds to the potential dramasplosion. I think if it was seperated a couple different ways it would help immensely. For example, maybe an abuse chat, a self-harm/suicide chat, (maybe more. Not the best at catorgorizing), and then just leave a gen after dark chat for like.. General advice ect
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2015
  17. rorleuaisen

    rorleuaisen Frozen Dreamer

    8c I have no clue what my post is doing or how to fix. Help.
  18. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya your purple friend

    @rorleuaisen there is no resistance

    there is only beldaran
    • Like x 3
  19. rorleuaisen

    rorleuaisen Frozen Dreamer

    Thank you Seebs ;u;
  20. kmoss

    kmoss whoops

    Side note, I don't think it's just the after dark chat.

    I remember at least two conflicts in the general chat.

    I think it is just skype, and the fact that all disagreements are public, so when any person logs on, they feel like the choice is to try to mediate or to go to another chat. And we have, what, like 5 chats?

    Added to that, people who aren't trained as mediators trying to mediate: a thing I have done

    And attempted mediators taking sides, and making the conflict worse, another thing I have done.

    The forum works better because there's like 400 people on it and a bazillion (too lazy to check actual numbers) different threads, and conflict affects less people.

    So, like, hoping we can successfully pull off the "take it to the forum", because while I don't have a specific issue with people in conflicts, it bugs me that useful discussion gets stalled while fourteen people throw down in a conflict that started between two. *shrugs*
    • Like x 4
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