Loose thought: "Attractive Nuisance"

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. Lissa Lysik'an

    Lissa Lysik'an Dragon-loving Faerie

    You might wish to read this thread, as it is, without preconceptions. I am not advocating any major changes in any protocols. I was pointing out some problems that may occur under the current protocols. Why you choose to attack me is beyond me since as far as I recall we have never interacted before. The fact that you changed your complaint about my discussion from things said in the LT threads to things I said in FL threads imply you are just attacking me rather than trying to have a discussion. I weathered an attack from KF - you think you are better than them at attacking people? Knock it off - I have no beef with you and I don't care if you hate me.
     
  2. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    In a case like that: I would probably split their post AND yours to preserve context. Probably. If I remembered.
     
    • Like x 3
  3. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    That's what I sort of intended to do, but Lissa's concern is about audience, which may be different no matter how the thread is split.
     
  4. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    1) To be honest I don't have to do anything, and I will see this thread in the broader context it stands in because that's a skill I worked hard to acquire and you can't tell me how I am supposed to interact with things.
    2) You weren't. Didn't mean to say you were. Seebs sure as hell sounded like they are, but given that they are supposed to be on break right now I will drop that. Sorry if I made it sound like I thought you were advocating for change.
    3) I am not attacking you as far as I can tell I am wording things strongly because I am pissed that this shit is making yet another appearance, but that's not on you. I apologize for making it sound like I was attacking you, But I absolutely refuse to change my tone.
    4) That is a misunderstanding. I did not mean to refer to what you posted in the LT thread, simply call back to the entirety of the thread as context for the current conversation.
    5) Lol nice ad hominem, do you want a glass of wine with that?
    6) I don't hate you I hate this discussion. I'm allowed to be angry.
     
    • Like x 6
  5. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Yup.

    This is why I dislike "rules" as a model: No simple structure of inputs and outputs will adapt to circumstances adequately, and sometimes there's no good answers.
     
    • Like x 2
  6. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    Here's a possible problem: 'vaguing'. I don't think namedropping is vaguing (because it's not terribly vague!) but there are going to be occasions where something is happening in one section of the forum, someone says something unkind about an unknown person in a different section of the forum, and the people involved in the altercation assume that the complaint is about them. Now what?

    Because almost all of the vent threads here are authored by people with offsite stressors, and frequently those people do not have any other place to safely catalogue those feelings. If someone, in the course of venting about someone in their irl life, says "god could you BE anymore passive aggressive" and someone on kintsugi assumes it's about them, what do we do? Demanding an apology for something that isn't about you is a shitty move, but there's absolutely nothing stopping the person who did the vent from saying "it wasn't ABOUT YOU" if it really was to avoid having to apology.

    So... what's the protocol for that?
     
    • Like x 5
  7. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

  8. Lissa Lysik'an

    Lissa Lysik'an Dragon-loving Faerie

    Kay. I can grasp that a lot.
     
    • Like x 2
  9. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I tried to hunt it down but it was taking too long. Basically, it's always okay to ask, in the vent thread, "Is this about me?"

    Further responses can move or stay in the thread according to the wishes of the OP.

    This shit being hard to find will be less of an issue once Seebs makes the planned guidelines/protocols post split in the community guidelines.
     
    • Like x 6
  10. Lissa Lysik'an

    Lissa Lysik'an Dragon-loving Faerie

    /me giggles
    Has you seed how Seebs organizes stuff? The protocols will be documented sometime around 2020, guidelines around 2018.5, and that's if she gets someone to write down what she says while she works on something else :)
     
    • Like x 5
  11. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I fucking know, right? Oh my god. XD

    I've only been asking on and off for months. ;p
     
  12. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    Just putting what the OP of this post actually was back again and giving it my biggest +1
    In particular:

    I really don't understand why this concept is generating negative discourse
     
    • Like x 3
  13. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    That is fair. I can see that. However I maintain that currently there's... a lot of insecurity about how to actually approach things going wrong, at least for me. Is the current preferred protocol for fights/meltdowns/unhappiness about someone's behavior to flag down a mod via report? Is it making a thread in TCHGB first things first? Are fights generally supposed to be dealt with by mods or by the rest of the community? What should the first step be?
     
    • Like x 2
  14. Petra

    Petra space case

    Sometimes people have Bad Thoughts. Sometimes expressing those Bad Thoughts in an area where Bad Thoughts are allowed to be expressed and seen without the assumption these are thoughts people want to have or want to act on is helpful. Gutting the informal structure of vent threads goes, no, your Bad Thoughts are Really Bad, and people are allowed to yell at you for those Bad Thoughts, and you're not allowed to cope by letting off steam in such a way that people don't have to see it and it isn't dragged into conversations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
    • Like x 9
  15. Starcrossedsky

    Starcrossedsky Burn and Refine

    By the community almost exclusively, @IvyLB .
     
    • Like x 2
  16. Petra

    Petra space case

    I think Seebs doesn't have similar problems with emotional buildup and expression that would make a vent thread for Seebs really helpful, and thus maybe doesn't really understand where the positivity in vent threads can come from, but that's an assumption that Seebs doesn't understand the catharsis and maybe she just doesn't think it's useful. I am honestly not sure and would like to know.
     
    • Like x 3
  17. Petra

    Petra space case

    Also: having rules doesn't mean having punative measures, which I know Seebs is opposed to and I can respect. It's a way to formalize as-of-now informal guidelines so that people have something to refer to with their own behavior. People who WANT to shit-stir will do that anyway, but most of the forum blowups have been from miscommunication and mismatched expectations.
     
    • Like x 9
  18. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    No I get the concept of venting
    but jesus fuck if people want to insult others maybe do it in a private conversation instead
    that's one of the places where I do draw the line and say 'yeah actually these are Bad Thoughts That Are Actually Bad' and propose writing them down and setting them on fire instead, maybe posting a picture of the ashes, if a private convo isn't available

    this isn't about vent threads in general it's about when vent thread content is harmful to other people

    like where's the line guys where we as a community go 'stop it, this isn't healthy'

    someone writes about wanting to hurt someone else in their vent thread?
     
    • Like x 3
  19. Petra

    Petra space case

    So where's the line of responsibility between someone who posts upsetting content in a clearly marked thread and the person who seeks out that content? How is that different from Bad Fanfiction?
     
    • Like x 3
  20. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    @IvyLB Mods don't stop fights, we just press pause on threads where stuffs getting out of hand. Y'all are allowed to have as many knock down drag out fights as you like, and you may invite a mediator (like me) if you want.

    If a fight breaks out in a topic thread, ping a mod using the report button and one of us may temp freeze the thread for a little bit. It helps people chill out and is not a punishment.

    Try not to fight in vent threads without the OP's permission. If you do, the thread might be split. That allows for personal space AND for things to be hashed out.

    Try not to have personal fights in topic threads, if you do the thread might be split. That helps keep stuff on topic and keep threads from being taken over.

    There is surely a universe where there are exceptions to these assertions, and it's always going to be up to the discretion of the mod.
     
    • Like x 6
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