Loose thought: "Attractive Nuisance"

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    One is fiction. The other is reality and frankly I'm super uncomfortable with the notion that it would be my fault for being hurt if I discovered someone was saying bad shit about me.
    Sometimes I check vent threads on my new subaccount to see if there's anything I can do to help because they are a place where people are distressed
     
    • Like x 2
  2. Petra

    Petra space case

    Like, what's the difference between someone going 'I want to set someone on fire' in their vent thread (with the understanding that NO, they're not going to actually act on that), and someone writing a fiction where one character sets another on fire? Is it the mention of real people? Would keeping it vague help? Would keeping it vague make it worse? Should survivors just cope in private? How about people with TBI moodswings? How bad can people act in public before it's too bad? How upsetting is the kind of upsetting that needs to be locked away? What triggers are cause for taking something to private, and what are cause for spoilering and warning, and what just can't be avoided, like eggs?
     
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  3. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    Dead dove does not apply to real life. If something is about you, it's inherently your business if you want it to be. If people wanna risk posting about others where they can see, that's up to them. We have protocols on how people can respond to hurtful shit said about them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
    • Like x 1
  4. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    Okay, in that case I am unsure why seebs-in-their-function-as-admin is restarting this discussion in a different thread in this manner? Idk I'm really confused? Because if it's not something the mods are supposed to deal with then the community will just continue doing shit the way it was done before now. Unless someone sits down to ping every single forum member into this discussion it's unlikely protocol changes or adjustments will happen?
     
    • Like x 3
  5. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    Okay but you know where we've seen that before and everyone was super justifiably upset about it and was characterized as Just Venting?

    It involved a rod and a urethra

    Look, I have BPD and I try super fucking hard to quarantine myself when i know shit is going south. Including to the point of tying one arm behind my back so I have to type with one finger if I think I'm about to have a serious splitting episode. It is up to the person doing harm to think 'oh maybe this is gonna hurt someone' either during the fact or after it. In which case, post deletion. Learn better coping methods than hurting other people.
     
    • Like x 3
  6. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    If you take that venting about people you're upset at into a private conversation, it puts pressure on whoever's in the conversation with you to agree, or disagree, or to respond in some way, because that's the format conversations follow. Vent threads aren't a conversation, and a lot of times they do work like you're just shouting into the void. Generally speaking, I'd be much more comfortable with venting about people in a space like that, rather than picking out one friend and demanding they hold this big emotional weight for me. Not weighing in on the wider discussion, and I know this isn't exactly what was being said, but the idea that folks should restrict their venting about people to private conversations only makes my skin crawl.
     
    • Like x 13
  7. Petra

    Petra space case

    Note: I'm not saying you're bad or wrong for being upset, or that you'd be wrong to be upset if you discovered a friend was saying bad things about you in their vent thread, or that your triggers are unreasonable and your distress is illegitimate. I'm saying that these are things we have to discuss, especially since the community stance is so, well, anti-anti that I'm a bit surprised that clearly marked vent threads are apparently a no-go. Also that if Seebs really wants no rules, what they're suggesting is kind of a rule, and it's not less of one because Seebs is trying to destroy an informal rule the community came up with.

    If someone is nasty about you in your vent thread and you see it, you can respond, but the protocol rn is to take that to argument island. We're not playing peekaboo but I don't like the fact that some people seem uncomfortable with vent threads in general.
     
    • Like x 7
  8. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    Okay thank you.
     
  9. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Succulent Vex Belly

    I don't like the implication that my frustrated, furious screaming that I clearly state in the first post of my vent thread does not reflect my actual feelings towards anyone but more my frustration and my inbuilt bad temper that being taught to suppress rather than deal with has been made worse are similar to Ray's actions that he owned and never apologised for

    ETA: also seconding spockandawe in that I already bitch to my friends enough, I don't want to trap them into HAVING NO CHOICE BUT TO LISTEN to me screaming
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
    • Like x 10
  10. Petra

    Petra space case

    I'm glad to know that insulting people in a vent thread is exactly the same as graphically describing a torture-rape fantasy about a real person to your friends in order to entertain and amuse them, rather than expressing something you know is bad because you know it's bad.
     
    • Like x 5
  11. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    This isn't about vent threads in general, it's about the idea that you can say nasty shit about someone, and if a person is upset by that, it's their fault for looking. It's an emergent thing that's gaining ground and I hate it.
    If I'm in a shared public space and hear someone saying nasty shit about me, i have every right to go over there and be like 'hey, what the fuck, I'm a person.'
    Same goes for forums, same goes for tumblr posts

    if people want to say hurtful things without any fear of that being discovered and having to apologize for being an ass, do it in a freaking diary or password locked blog
     
    • Like x 3
  12. Petra

    Petra space case

    When did I say differently?
     
  13. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    Dude, people are allowed to not like the things that other people do. I don't like many things, you don't like some things, Kathy is not a fan of some things, that's fine.

    I don't think Kathy is trying to advocate for outlawing anything, and she's just not enthused about them.
     
  14. Petra

    Petra space case

    Right.

    IDK, she just asked 'I don't understand why this is generating a negative response', I responded honestly, and now we're... fighting I guess?
     
    • Like x 1
  15. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Succulent Vex Belly

    Great, but you didn't specify that initially.
    If someone is upset by anything i say about them in my vent thread they're welcome to talk to me. I don't usually use names anyway but they're also welcome to ask if something is about them. ETA: I will not stop screeching furiously, however. If I'm furious, I will screech furiously.
    I mean to be honest this is a complete nonissue because I'm not active enough on the forum for anyone but my friends to read my vent thread in any case.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    Nobody thought he was gonna act on that either and yet

    Look I am deliberately drawing a comparison here because it's fucked up!! It's super fucked up that we keep edging closer and closer on the forum to accepting things which are decidedly not okay

    I'm not drawing attention to any person in particular I'm talking about the hypotheticals raised in the response I quoted from you.

    If someone were to post "I want to set [X] on fire" and that wasn't immediately caught and people go 'hey, uh, what-'

    escalation is a thing
     
    • Like x 2
  17. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    Well, the Dead Dove thing does place blame on the reader for reading the thing. Attractive Nuisance means that people venting shit are still on the hook for the shit they vent.
     
  18. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    I wasn't talking about anyone in particular I promise, I'm only replying to petra and the examples there. I am also real real concerned about the idea that if someone is hurt by a thing said about them in a vent thread, that we're edging closer to a forum culture that does a double reacharound into blaming them for being hurt and supports the aggressor instead
     
    • Like x 4
  19. Petra

    Petra space case

    Yeah, and I agree it's not exactly a dead dove situation because whatever fanfic you read that ain't your thing isn't about you* but something on someone's vent thread might very well be. I wasn't advocating that nobody be held responsible for their vent threads, but I also don't think the vent threads are, idk, exactly like everywhere else? The context has shifted.

    *Unless it's written by Ray, which is part of why that one was upsetting and partially because dude refuses to accept he writes dead dove noncon.
     
    • Like x 2
  20. Petra

    Petra space case

    Great! I never said that! The problem with the most recent blowup wasn't people being upset over what got said about them, it was frigging suicide baiting and suicide threats and us-vs-them!
     
    • Like x 8
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