Loose thought: "Attractive Nuisance"

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    what?
    no
    I don't have specific examples from vent threads because as far as I'm aware there aren't any at the moment, and it would be a real dick move to vague at people about this?
    I don't...do that? The closest thing would be from that Not Sure Where To Put this thread but I voiced my concerns there and consider it resolved because I voiced them there.
     
  2. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    That's a very nice reply that I'd love to receive. c:

    But if you WANTED to just be a jerk, you're allowed.
     
    • Like x 5
  3. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    Absolutely yes, that's a wonderful reply that would make me super happy if it was us having a conflict.
     
    • Like x 6
  4. Petra

    Petra space case

    More specifically, Feffie, it feels like you were crossing boundaries and touching other people without permission and acting like they weren't allowed to be generally upset in a thread for being upset in, and then when someone got loud at you, suddenly it's all about how you're hurt. That's a pattern that can go really badly, and that some abusers can use to justify why they're actually the abused one when their victim snaps back. I'm not calling you an abuser, but that's why people get so upset, NOT because the thing happened in a vent thread.
     
    • Like x 14
  5. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    @Petra yeah i get that more now! it was absolutely a mistake of me to go past their boundaries but its just distressing to me too that i never even got an apology for how they acted too. screaming at/insulting people when youre mad is still smthn you should apologize for even if its bc you were in a bad place mentally? i felt like ppl kept repearting i didnt deserve any consideration that i was hurt by that bc it was in a vent thread so my fault for being there

    maybe i should have apologized to them there but i was distracted by Fear bc someone yelling at me which does rly scare me...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
    • Like x 1
  6. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Succulent Vex Belly

    Okay. To be honest, I'm satisfied with this. I would get upset if I offered a reply like that and was met with furious vitriol and the impression that I'm the one 100% in the wrong always forever, but that's a case that would have to be dealt with at the time, but I'm not against apologising to people for saying mean shit. I would like to also be allowed to say 'I am very angry now and cannot deal, can you please pm me or make a thread so I can come back and deal with this when I'm calmer' but so long as that's also a Good Thing and isn't going to get me screamed at for not being able to be polite RIGHT THEN AND THERE, I'm fine.
     
    • Like x 6
  7. Petra

    Petra space case

    Sometimes you're not going to get an apology. The fact that you keep bringing this up (and kept minimizing what you did as a little mistake) doesn't exactly make Void want to apologize to you, especially since what they did can easily be seen as protecting their boundaries from a violation.

    Furthermore, people aren't upset at you because of the vent thread thing in specific. It's because Void wasn't doing anything wrong in their vent until you stepped in and minimized their right to express anger. I understand that conflict upsets you and makes you uncomfortable, but generalized screaming in threads marked for generalized screaming is actually pretty okay. It got more targeted when you stepped in, but that's not a... 'vent thread culture' thing.

    Anyway, if Void doesn't want to apologize, nobody can make Void apologize. That's a thing that exists regardless of the vent threads. All you can do is express your desire for an apology and then try to move on with or without that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
    • Like x 14
  8. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    yeah, i dont want to say they have to or anything like that. i just felt like a lot of the people who defended them were acting like i didnt have a right to feel hurt by them at all. plus people vagued me a lot while i was panicking bc being yelled at is a trigger for me which rly did not help ;;
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  9. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    @TwoBrokenMirrors
    Yeah, that kind of thing isn't the thing I'm worried about because you both
    - understand if a thing was kind of out of line
    - retract and offer communication

    I'm concerned about things getting to the point where someone could eventually post threats/insults and instead respond like 'No, you're the wrong person here because you're in MY SPACE and I'm allowed to say ANYTHING here', refusing communication, and having that backed up by well meaning other users because it's a Vent Thread, and the person targeted being left hanging in the wind and further victimized.
     
    • Like x 4
  10. Mendacity

    Mendacity I’m meaner than my demons

    tbh to me it's less like a sign at a pool saying 'no swimming' and more like the signs at gun ranges that say "Do not go past this line during active fire"

    If I'm firing at the wall that is my vent thread and you walk past the gun line and get hit? That is not my fucking fault. I'll apologize later, but this is nothing like 'attractive nuisance' shit. It's like seeing a sign on a fucking meat grinder that says "don't put hands in grinder while it's active" and then doing so.

    This is not me saying 'hey you can't call out really shitty vent behavior' because feel free but only if you're willing to shove your hand into the meat grinder.

    You're aware the person is shooting at paper targets, even if those targets (at the moment) are shaped like you they aren't you. Don't step in the way of someone firing a gun and say "HEY WHAT THE FUCK?" because you'll get fucking shot.

    We already had this shit worked out, Bel has said it multiple times, I don't understand why we're fucking catastrophizing about possible bad things happening when all of us are mentally ill to some degree. What do you want? To cause more anxiety over a situation that had actually fucking cooled down? What's the honest point of this thread?
     
    • Like x 14
  11. Petra

    Petra space case

    I definitely think you have the right to be upset. It's just that feeling upset doesn't make you right or wrong.

    If you haven't apologized specifically to Void yet, that might help.
     
    • Like x 6
  12. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Succulent Vex Belly

    Having established to my satisfaction that I'm allowed to scream in my vent thread, I'm stepping out before I get more stressed than I already am.

    ETA: I will be ignoring the thread
     
    • Like x 1
  13. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    yeah, maybe we should have a tchgb thread for that or smthn but idk how rly

    particularly i still feel like people in mahinas thread who responded when i responded to them vauging me bc of void had an attitude of 'its your fault if they upset u bc u were in their vent thread'
     
  14. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    Okay, I'm sorry for probably overreacting, I am just really really... burned out on the "SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE said a thing probably, but I'll not dig up specific examples or anything or even provide proof that this is actually happening just believe me it totally does" arguing style, which that part of the post unfortunately resembled. It's... not helpful as far as I can tell to argue about hypotheticals?
    The fact of the matter is that this forum doesn't have a Minimum Behavior Standard, because a lot of the members are just beginning to get anywhere in recovery. Like I get that people acting shittily towards others can lead to pain, but pre-emptively hand-wringing about how someone might someday act shitty will hurt people just as likely? If someone's being a shitheel, it gets dealt with via the protocols we have in place but Kintsugi was never meant to be A Safe Space so there's no way to prevent people from being shitheels. And that's good. Policing people and meddling in their behavior is likely to hurt and silence some and make others double down on the asshole behavior, simple as that.
     
    • Like x 6
  15. Petra

    Petra space case

    I think you wouldn't have been yelled at if you hadn't posted the cuttlefish without asking. But that doesn't mean that your feelings aren't real.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    yeah, ty for helping me understand this fjdhdb

    i dont rly wanna look back at mahinas thread specifically rn bc i dont have the spoons but i. remember mercury being like 'ur gonna get such a shock in the ~~~real world~~~ when ppl dont want ur help how dare u go up to someones VENT and then be upset when they hurt u and that was. skeevy imo. thats the kind of attitude i think this thread itself is trying to bring up so,,
     
  17. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    I am hand-wringing about hypotheticals precisely because I have a real worry that within the next six to eight months, given current tensions on the forums and increased incidences of user-to-user conflict, they will not be hypothetical any more. The last time I noticed a concerning trend developing (in a different environment, not kintsugi) and did not voice my concerns, the thing I was worried about happened, it was really fucking bad, and I had to do serious triage and everyone involved was massively hampered in their own recovery efforts.
     
  18. Mendacity

    Mendacity I’m meaner than my demons

    Not the same place. Everyone is under external stress, and user-to-user stress seems to be related corely to socio-political environments. People are going to lash out, but we did have a recent change since then. We have two mods that can help actually lock threads, a thing that was sorely needed.

    The key problem I think is that everyone here is so conflict avoidant that they don't want to make TCHGB threads about disagreements. Half the disagreements don't even happen near the vent threads.
     
    • Like x 3
  19. Mendacity

    Mendacity I’m meaner than my demons

    I'm also not very fond of 'punish the whole because a few were bad' style tactics. I'm more in favor of 'find problem elements and deal with as needed with a light touch', aka what we've been doing.
     
    • Like x 6
  20. Lissa Lysik'an

    Lissa Lysik'an Dragon-loving Faerie

    I am a little surprised at how many people think they should be allowed to insult other people without allowing the insulted person to respond in the same thread. The concept boggles me. Why would anyone even WANT such a system? Being offensive is a bad thing, even when it comes from brainweird - and I am not immune to doing it. Just because it happens due to brainweird doesn't make the hurt go away, nor does it clear the damage done to the victim's reputation. Saying there should be a place where you are allowed to insult other people and they aren't allowed to respond in the same place they were insulted is fucking stupid.
    I'm going to sleep and hope y'all get your wits together before I wake up.
     
    • Like x 8
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