Moderation protocol question/request

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by hoarmurath, May 21, 2015.

  1. hoarmurath

    hoarmurath Thor's Hammer

    As I was making the grimdark thread go off topic and it was raised as a suggestion, I am making a topic here.

    My question is:

    What are the protocols in dealing with forum members who say hurtful things to other members? I understand the current modus operandi is to clean up the hurtful posts, but to otherwise allow the poster to remain.

    I don't think this is a good way to deal with it, because it sidelines the people who were actually the target of said hurtfulness. The fact that it can stem from other things than outright malice does not make it better.

    Everyone has their issues, but I don't think some people should be allowed to get their issues over others. There has to be a line after which there are consequences.

    It has been said permanent banning is not something that will be done here, but I do request there be some sort of option between letting things go as they have and permabanning.
    • Like x 1
  2. BPD anon

    BPD anon Here I sit, broken hearted

    I will leave. I know I'm evil and hurtful and I shouldn't hurt the wonderful people on this forum.
  3. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I have been experimenting with forum moderation for a very long time, and basically, I think that "there has to be a line after which there are consequences" is an assumption that I am not convinced holds.

    From my point of view, the question is "what will make things better". I don't think banning people helps much if they have the ability to contribute to the community, and BPD Anon clearly does. And making them leave doesn't really help them get better, and I'm not sure it helps anyone else, either. On one forum I was on, we had a user who would spend multiple days attacking people, and what we did in that case was put that user on full moderation, so all their posts were approved by mods, and that actually worked pretty well. I hadn't suggested it here because BPD Anon's meltdowns are pretty rare comparatively.

    There's no way to make everyone fully happy and fully safe. And I'm not really happy with BPD Anon leaving, because she definitely needs a community that can deal with the whole person and not just ignore her in favor of focusing the meltdowns...
    • Like x 6
  4. BPD anon

    BPD anon Here I sit, broken hearted

    I think you're putting the comfort of a bully over the well being of the victims by wanting me to stay.
  5. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    From what I've seen where it regards you it doesn't really seem to be something that I'd consider actually abusive. The meltdowns appear to be rare and you do calm down and apologize for things. That and you're working on things? You definitely need a place to try at things like seebs said. Granted as I've said I've only been here for a bit and I've certainly never been on the receiving end of one of the meltdowns.

    Maybe something else can be worked out like seebs suggested? Not that idea exactly but some sort of other compromise. If it's really needed.
  6. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I don't think so, because you are fundamentally not a bully. Bullies target people they think are weak and vulnerable. Bullies avoid me like the plague, double hitler McSatan, and a really annoying lap dog all at once. And yet, I've seen you have meltdowns and scream at me. That tells me that it ain't bullying, because no bully would do that.

    I would like to find ways to make other people safe, but if Kintsugi can't offer an environment receptive to a severely traumatized abuse victim who's working really hard to get better and deal with her problems, what the fuck is the point?
    • Like x 6
  7. BPD anon

    BPD anon Here I sit, broken hearted

    So that other severely traumatized abuse victims who don't hurt people can recover in peace without being told to kill themselves. Just bc I was abused doesn't excuse that I hurt people.
  8. rorleuaisen

    rorleuaisen Frozen Dreamer

    Look, everyone has bad days, and having somewhere relatively safe to learn how to deal with them is optimal. And while some of the outbursts you have are unpleasant and potentially upsetting, you are not being specifically harmful. You aren't targeting people. You aren't being malicious.

    Honestly, if you are really worried about your behavior, create a safety net. Are you suddenly angry? I'm sure someone would be willing to listen to you angrily rant. If you train yourself to redirect your anger at the not offending party, it would decrease the chances of someone's feeling being hurt. Maybe create a thread that is just for being angry and pissed. You are allowed to be angry, and I know that it happens suddenly, but you don't need to shut people out or runaway to deal with it. There are people here who are willing to help and listen. People who have an idea of what's going on and aren't going to consider you a horrible irredeemable person because of occasional outbursts.
    • Like x 2
  9. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Life is pain, princess. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something. :)

    I mean, yeah, it sucks, but you work hard to mitigate it, you apologize, and you do it less often, and that's how things go. It's not as if people won't get hurt anyway.

    You wanna give the full-moderation thing a try, assuming I can figure out how xenforo works? That'd eliminate the problem, at some cost in latency.
  10. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I'd be willing to listen certainly. I can't always be around, but I'd be open to talking with you if I happen to be around when it's happening.
  11. BPD anon

    BPD anon Here I sit, broken hearted

    If I could control my anger like that I would have already @rorleuaisen
  12. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I could try poking at you during it then? Instead of you coming to some thread.
  13. kmoss

    kmoss whoops

    I like the idea of having a thread specifically for when you're pissed. I also get that sometimes it's difficult to realize where you are, emotionally, because we're all humans. Possibly protocol for thread would be to go there when you feel the need for CapsLock?
    And probably that goes for all of us.
    We all have things we are working through, and my idea of kintsugi is that we are all trying to work together.

    (Also, I would be ok if you vented at me as well. I'm not always around, but I don't get hit hard by anger when it's directed at me at all, so it isn't like you're hurting me with any of it)
  14. Codeless

    Codeless Cheshire Cat

    So, I´ve been on the receiving end of BPD Anons meltdowns. it sucks, but from what I´ve seen it sucks to have them too, and she? They? have always apologized when they had the headspace to, which to me is an important distinction. Did their flipout at me hurt me? Yes. But I still don´t think they should be banned for it, perma or otherwise.
    People fuck up, it happens. BPD Anon is trying to minimize the damage and amount of their meltdowns, which is also important because it means they are not malicious. I know people disagree about that, but intent matters to me.
    TL;DR: There´s a difference between symptoms and malicious behaviour, and they should not be treated the same.

    @BPD anon No, but not punishing you for having meltdowns =/= Excusing your behaviour.
    Excusing your behaviour would mean everyone pretended everything you did was ok and no one gets to say otherwise, and that´s not what is happening here. Also i really don´t want you to leave.

    Actual "punishments" for losing their temper/control frankly strike me as punishing people for symptoms. Hell, I can´t promise I won´t flip my shit at someone on here sometime.

    I hope this post makes some sense, I´m a bit low on spoons here.
    • Like x 5
  15. Lissiel

    Lissiel Dreaming dead

    What if we made a 'im hysterically angry' thread specifically for spewing bile? Like for general use. I really kind of dig the hell out of that idea.
    • Like x 4
  16. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    Honestly, the idea of trying to make a perfectly safe environment kind of scares me. The appeal of this place for me is that I don't have to hide or lie in order to make people feel better. :\

    Full moderation seems reasonable to me, if BPD anon is amenable, specifically because she's having trouble with impulse control. Sucks, man; I hope it gets easier to regulate this kind of thing, getting that angry doesn't look like much fun at all.

    Bile-spewing thread sounds nice. I curse and yell when I'm grouchy, and could use somewhere to vent; I'm always concerned about upsetting people in other threads.
    • Like x 4
  17. rorleuaisen

    rorleuaisen Frozen Dreamer

    Fair enough.

    Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the other abuse victims. Shit happens. We get yelled at. Unpleasant things will keep happening. But you know what's nice? Someone treating us like shit and apologizing for it. That's actually kinda rare.

    And, please, trust that we can defend ourselves. We have to learn to. We support eachother. This includes you.
    • Like x 6
  18. BPD anon

    BPD anon Here I sit, broken hearted

    If intent matters to you, you should know during the meltdown you were a part of, my intent was to make the people who disagreed with me about spiders hurt. That's how awful I am.
  19. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    @BPD anon That's lashing out; I'm pretty sure everybody's said mean things so people will hurt like they hurt. Doesn't make you automatically horrible, especially because you apologize and try to fix things when you calm down. BPD's just complicating matters.
  20. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    The weakness of a "vent thread" type thing is that when you're really mad it usually doesn't seem like it should go over there instead of right here at the person you're mad at.

    And yes, obviously at the time you were intending to make people feel pain, because that's what losing your shit and being angry is like. So far as I know, everyone who says mean shit when they're mad does it to make people feel pain, because they've lost their temper and are mad. That's actually totally normal; the abnormal part is that your responses are more extreme, which is why you're "BPD Anon" and not "really chill and mellow anon". But you're also working on it, and you don't have any apparent general desire to hurt people. And there's more than one layer of intent.
    • Like x 2
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