Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by hoarmurath, May 21, 2015.
I am late to the party, but I could probably also do it if need be!
I was qualifying the statement just in case, but I figure I managed to come off like I thought I would be considered anyway. Which I don't, of course.
Well, I'd consider you, at least, if you were interested. The biggest barrier I'd see would be that if you find the splitting/angry posts upsetting, you'd probably not want to do moderation for a queue that exists because it might contain them?
Fair enough. I'm cool with keeping it as-is then.
yeah basically the only reason for bumping euro-time mods is so you don't have to wait for your posts to be approved when the mn crew has gone to bed. if you'd rather wait than have someone besides us see it, then we don't need to do anything.
can I request short term moderation?
i don't know how to do it. @seebs are you on rn?
done. i can also tell jesse how is do.
For transparency sake: I am temp putting beeps on Ignore here. I cannot handle her splitting and black and white thinking right now as it is making mine flare up and I'm going to same something to her that I will regret. I am doing this for my own mental health, not as punishment or to make her behave in any certain way.
I feel like everybody's happier here without me.
Like I look at the complaints department ethics thread and I make the following observations:
-AD made a post about all the bad posts I made. Most of them were justified but at the end they included all my "what makes my motives impure" questions. They said it looked like I was trying to get them to "enable" me. But you have to be doing something bad/destructive to be enabled and I thought in the end they said my motives weren't bad and apologized! They were lying! And what I said was so much worse so I almost feel bad bringing it up but they LIED to me and they still thinks it's wrong to do things for attention!
-And they also said I was infatuated with Luka and yeah I idolize Luka a lot but I feel really uncomfortable with the romantic/sexual connotations of the word imfatuated.
-one person said they were worried about me imitating Luka because Luka is a deeply nuanced person. Another said they were worried about me imitating Luka because Luka is "a big boy." This feels like they are saying I am neither nuanced nor truly adult. Like "you can't imitate this trait because you don't have it."
-"I am not directing these words at you beeps. But I am directing them at, in general, people who do the things you did, and I'm not naming any alternative people I could be talking about" is something I'm hearing an awful lot.
- this might sound dumb but I really don't like nicknames like "beeps," "beepie," "beep" etc. used in any kind of negative context. Like i thought those were supposed to be affectionate nicknames?
-and there's more people who think wanting attention is morally murky. I want to argue maybe
-but now that I haven't posted in a while everybody is happy and talking about cute plants and how to sleep better and joking around with friends. I'm bring this up here not there bc I don't want to barge in and restress everything
-this is EXTRA true because when we were all arguing about motives, which I think fell under the thread's umbrella nicely, somebody stepped in like every ten posts with "alright nobody's getting anywhere and everybody's upset and we all approach this from different places, can't we move on?" Whereas now when the thread is completely off topic absolutely nobody is complaining and saying "hey chatting about plants is nice and all but don't we have ethics wrt Ray to debate?"
All I do is snarl up the forums lol nobody's gonna want to talk to me unless I completely avoid ever mentioning this shit but that would be dishonest so
I guess this might be addressing me among others, so I'll explain my bit more clearly.
In my post I addressed your exact actions and referred to you by name when talking about those actions. I also addressed actions taken by a wide variety of people, and referred to the group in general while talking about those.
If I'm talking about or to you, you'll know, because I'm not here to dance around anyone's feelings.
You might want to make a thread about that specific issue then, maybe in General Advice. The Ethics Committee is about the micro-community in the Complaints Department, and it's well established that said community happily goes off topic all the time. The question of attention seeking behavior by you or others isn't specifically about the Complaints Department, so you should feel free to present it to the forum at large as its own topic if you like.
Firstly, @BPD anon, not everybody! I for one like reading your posts. However, that's because I am an ignorant old duffer and I learn things from you, as I do from reading many posts here. You see, in the old days I would have said to people who were a bit sensitive that they should 'grow a thicker skin'. Now I know that that isn't such a good idea after all. The point is you are not the only one here that sometimes takes things the wrong way. It happens. Don't tell anyone but I've done it too. Some words are used in ways which are not easily clarified and people get the wrong end of the stick. And then explanations get muddied and frustration ensues.
@Beldaran's post arrived as I was writing this. Saves me saying anything. I agree with her last paragraph.
That may be the case with some folks, but not everyone.
I appreciate your presence and your posts--even when I snap at you.
I still want to talk about these issues and the "Ethics Committee" thread is the place to do it. I have a "hell week" of work coming up, so I won't be able to be an on-line-all-the-time participant, but I will still pop in in the evenings to drop some turds in the punch.
I'm just going to clarify my thoughts for you(and I will totally still do the thing for you if you want. I get internet tomorrow and I can start working on it). Luka confuses me. One minute he makes sense, the next he doesn't. I can not for the life of me predict Luka. His reasoning is complicated and he doesn't always express how he comes to his reasoning/beliefs. You probably have a better understanding of his behavior since you are reading his archives. But from my perspective(which is both limited and atleast with a portion of error) he can have seemingly contradicting and complicated beliefs full of nuance.
For comparison, I find Seebs easy to understand and moderately easy to predict. He has similar beliefs but spends a great deal of time explaining. This isn't to say that Seebs lacks nuance(and I may very well be using the wrong word), but he is more straightforward imo.
You are also a nuanced person. I cannot predict your behavior. You are shaped by your life experiences which I only have a peek at. But, based on what I have observed(which is again limited and not 100% accurate) you have done a fair amount of mimicing, not of Luka specifically. I drew conclusions based on my observation of Luka's complexity, combined with the tendency to mimic I observed from you. It is not a judgement on whether or not you are nuanced. It is simply how I pattern analyze.
And maybe that isn't right of me to do. Personally, I find your character interesting. I wouldn't find it interesting if you weren't nuanced. If you are uncomfortable with me drawing patterns/conclusions based on my observations, I will leave you be. It is a way I make sense of people to help me operate, but I do not intend to impose and I will back off if you desire.
Also, I think that the "big boy" comments were innapproriate and inaccurate. People are people. No matter what age or experience level.
The reason you are hearing this so often is there are multiple people(I think I saw at least 4 in that thread alone) drawing conclusions that comments were specifically aimed at them, but leaving out names for the sole purpose of being cruel/manipulative. It is my understanding that the individuals who thought this have dealt with backhanded comments that look like this irl and have learned to hone in on it so they can defend themselves. It is my understanding that the people making the general sweeping comments did so because they recognized patterns happening, but could not remember specific names(partially because there may have been too many to recall). The above statement you are seeing a lot of is used to clarify that the statements are general so that the individuals(of which there were atleast 3) that may be prone to thinking they are being manipulatively referred to, are not. It is used to help communication and defuse tension.
@BPD anon Yeah, those all seem like pretty legitimate grievances to me. Like, I don't think that AD or anyone else did anything abusive or seriosuly out of line, but I'd be pissed at them if I were in your situation, and this all seems pretty reasonable on the interpersonal-conflict part.
I don't want to be all 'they said, she said' about this, I have already accepted the apology I received. However the replies that upset BPD-Anon came after they wrote about AD, and then wrote another comment that upset several other people.
Yeah, I may be misremembering, I don't really wanna back read through stuff to see. My basic point was that BPD anon is not overreacting or being awful, these are grievances within the realm of normal social friction, without being catastrophic stuff. If that makes sense?
i'm terrible at remembering which people have done what things, and if multiple people have done a thing, so i have a tendency in my posts to talk about the thing itself and not the people who may or may not have done it. i sometimes forget to use @, but i think i directed my posts at you when i know you are the one who did the thing i am talking about
i think i might have done that a few times and i'm sorry if i did. mostly i try to use beeps and beepsky to convey when i'm not trying to be hostile towards you, but i sometimes forget when i'm supposed to use specific words when i get upset
i tried to say something along the lines of "i regret that wording, i couldn't find the right words to express my opinion". i don't think the act of wanting attention itself is bad. i think that it being the driving force behind interaction with ray is not a good idea and could potentially have dangerous consequences. but i also acknowledged that you seemed mostly curious as a driving force, and that nothing bad happened this time, so everything's fine
i don't generally keep grudges toward people who have done hurtful things to me if they didn't do it for selfish or malicious intentions. you were splitting and i get that, and you also apologized. i've got no hard feelings toward you now, we're cool if you're cool with me
if you're calm enough toward me, i'm totally down to talk with you about plants and stuff in messages. and if you have any other questions toward me, i'll gladly answer them.
just as long as you feel you won't split at me for the things already done and said. i don't want us to set each other off again
but yeah, i've got no hard feelings toward you at all beeps
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