Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Mar 16, 2017.
Fair! Most people just seem to be getting mad though.
Those people are losing.
I'm just really confused by a certain idea that crops up sometimes that we have to rehabilitate every random asshole that wanders through here.
As if some assholes aren't being assholes for the sake of it and don't care.
Oh, now you've done it. Run before you get textwalled. ;-)
oh god no
It's not that we have to rehabilitate people, since obviously we can't. But the entire point of the thing is to be a place where people who have usually been told that they're not good enough can try to get better.
I dunno about you, but I have spent more of my life than I really wanted to being told that obviously I was just being an asshole for the sake of it and didn't care, when actually I cared very much but needed help understanding other people's needs or boundaries. So have a lot of my friends. It's actually a really common experience, especially for people with mental illnesses or disabilities, and I figure there's enough of it out there already.
Like, okay, we had one guy in the KF thread who did indeed appear to genuinely only want to be an asshole. He left immediately upon discovering that there were plenty of people here who could play that game and enjoy it. There's at least one person who came because of the KF threads with intent to mock people, and ended up sticking around and trying to work on mental health things because, well, that was what they felt they needed. I know that at least a few of the people who've been offered as examples of "just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole" were, in fact, a lot more complicated.
Heck, a few pages back I pointed out a couple of Michi's posts as being sorta "just being an asshole" posts. Did you see her response? Her thoughtful, reasoned, response that acknowledged that those posts didn't necessarily reflect the person she wants to be? So if I'd just gone with that superficial impression and dismissed her as "just being an asshole for the sake of it", I'd have been completely wrong, wouldn't I? And I've known her long enough that I sorta suspected there was more context, etcetera. But I don't know everyone, and sure, sometimes people seem to me like they're just being jerks... But I also know that so far, I've seen that turn out to be a false impression a whole lot of times, and I'm not sure I've ever actually confirmed it to be accurate.
If you wanna run a forum based on your belief that you or someone else can accurately determine who really just wants to be an asshole for the sake of it, and who's got problems and needs help, you go right ahead, I won't try to stop you. But this one is going to stay focused on trying to find ways that people who just get dismissed and kicked out elsewhere can get a chance to try to put themselves back together.
I sorta get the thing, but it seems to me like there's a bit of a genuine unfairness in this:
If I say small simple things, people misinterpret them, and blame me for not clarifying and spelling things out better.
If I say large complicated things, people ignore them or deride them as "textwalls" and then pretend I never said anything.
It would be really cool if I were, you know, permitted to try to express things without being actively attacked no matter how I try to express things.
Okay, to start with, I think that people might be having a little bit of a disconnect over--
(I'm not going to do that)
I'm more of a "I wanna be on good terms with everyone in the entire world" kind of person. You know, just one of my many goals in life. A personal thing.
Textwalls take time and effort to dissect and respond to, which is why I prefer to engage with them over PM where I'm not on the clock in a quickly-moving thread. Users with attention deficit problems will likely won't be able to meaningfully engage with textwalls at all. You're not the only one who textwalls -- Spock does it plenty and I make fun of her, too. (And I luv your textwalls, @spockandawe.)
I happen to like long single messages, since everything is in one place and I don't have to run to drag whatever I'm responding to back from five pages ago. Not everyone does. Competing access needs, and all that.
But we have a pattern here on Kintsugi...
...And heralding the imminent textpocalypse seems, to me, like a pretty harmless joke.
I was definitely poking fun at me. @seebs runs wordy, but I've been the main offender in the last few bursts of discussion :P
And also from me: hypocritical access needs! I have attention issues that make it hard to parse a long message if I don't pick it up on first skim, especially if the material is complicated or doesn't already have my overwhelming devotion (robots). But I am not brief when I'm talking, and then in more intensive discussions, I run extra long because if I think a thing and don't write it right then, those attention issues mean the thought will evaporate and I'll get frustrated. So I feel like I've gotta poke fun at myself, or I'm being an ass in my actions, if not in my words. Plus I've been feeling idly self-conscious about the textwalls I've been inflicting on everyone here (though not repentant), and joking about myself helps with the thing.
Fair enough, and I get that it's a joke, it's just that I've gotten enough actual hostility over it that it's not a topic where I'm super happy about being poked about it. (More directed at ASPD Anon than at spock, in this case.) Because, while it's a thing that can be just fooling around, it's also a thing that's been offered repeatedly as a reason for which it's reasonable to ignore my actual clarifications on a topic and just assume I meant something else.
I think it's more a general thing of "this has been a sore point for a while", since none of the comments here were particularly hostile-sounding, or from people I don't read better than that usually anyway. So, who knows. I think I'm still fussy because of completely unrelated things.
I can't read short posts.
Okay, won't do it any more.
(I think it's also joke.)
Yes. My response was too:
Feigning confusion at "I can't read short posts", as though I couldn't read it.
And doing so in an even shorter post.
@ASPD Anon do you have any hot stock picks? :D
The Seebs Almanac from 2182 has found an owner, I see.
The awesome thing about having @anonymous around is that I don't have to be the asshole ALL THE DAMN TIME. It gets a little tiring, you know.
I dunno, I'm seeing some awesome potential for a thunderdome spinoff here. TWO ASSHOLES ENTER! ONE ASSHOLE LEAVES!
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