Just some thoughts. My dad showed my mom the book How to Win Friends and Influence People before I was born. According to him (and knowing my mom, I believe it), after she finished she began to point out to everybody she talked to how they weren't following the book. How they should smile more and make more specific compliments and remember names better. A few months ago, I again listened to How to Win Friends and Influence People with my dad (I did it before when I was like nine). He told me about how mom acted. She took it as a book of Rules For How Everybody Should Already Be Acting and not a book on how to personally act nicer to others. I acted that way a bit too when I first read it at nine, and I'm kind of happy that I immediately saw the problem in what she did. Getting upset when other people don't follow the exact rules of niceness you follow turns out to not be a nice thing to do. Forcing the How to Win Friends mentality on people goes against the How to Win Friends mentality. Anyways, I thought this kind of related to SJWs on Tumblr (sigh, and in real life, where I don't have a backspace button and therefore act a lot like a Tumblr SJW myself). They find rules for how to treat people better, and instead of using them to treat people better, they act like jerks to anybody who doesn't follow the rules even if those people haven't heard of the rules before. Thoughts? Am I totally off-base here?
I can see the connection. As for thoughts, I find it annoying and very frightening when there are rules that I was clearly expected to know but never heard of and that is part of my objection to the SJW crowd. From what you said tho, your mom does not use those rules as a power play to squash other people down, which would be how I'd describe the SJW use.
Hmmm... I think she might have been, though. Like, isn't telling people they have to follow an unknown set of rules always a power play? For reference, my mom
That is a really awesome insight! I love that book. I particularly love that the book is itself an illustration of the principle. It is about all sorts of things, many of which are "be nicer", but it is framed in terms of what the reader probably wants to get.
Oh dear fucking heavens 0_0 Yes then there is the SJW use ETA: sorry, i get a little confused about the intentions of other people. like, i read what you said and think "oh, she made a mistake on the purpose of the book."
I think that telling people they have to follow an unknown set of rules is not always a power play. Sometimes it's just being really really not-autistic and not realizing that the rules are not innate to all people. My belief is that the intent of the book is to give people guidance on how to be happier and more successful in a way that happens to be indistinguishable from being genuinely nice to people. However, it's framed as "how to get what you want". Which is useful because the people who most need advice on being nice don't want to be nice, they want to get what they want from all those other people. I think BPD anon's understanding of the book is really good, actually, and the insight that the point is to do it yourself, not to try to make other people do it, because trying to force them goes against the mentality described, is a really good and concise description. I wish I'd had that turn of phrase handy when I was trying to explain the nonviolent communication thing. ... pondering. I wonder if any of the BPD people here are familiar with NVC, because it occurs to me that it might be a useful way of approaching some of the black-and-white thinking problems.
I think I have tried it, from what I've seen on your blog talking about it, at least. The conversation went roughly Mom: why can't you just let one of these conversations end by not replying? (Or something like that. Maybe I asked her first why she always has to get the last word? Maybe she asked me? I don't remember the lead up too well but I do remember the next two things said.) Me: when you end with "stupid bitch" or something similar, it makes me feel bad. Like, really really bad. There's this infinite sadness that comes from you saying that. I feel like I have to defend myself. Mom: well I have to end with saying that in order to make me not feel bad. When you continue the argument, it just makes it worse.
...she *has* to call you a stupid bitch or else she feels bad? Really? That's the only way she can avoid feeling bad? Bullshit.
I may be getting this wrong, but I think the idea behind it is that when she's angry at me, she needs to say these things to blow off steam. And then if I try to defend myself, I'm invalidating her steam blowing. Maybe similar to those people who go on public websites with many male members to vent about how all men are evil, and then get mad when a guy tries to say he isn't?
Gosh, who woulda thought, your mom comes across as sort of abusive. One of the things I was thinking about is that stuff like NVC might be helpful for internal thoughts. Like, trying to replace thoughts like "I'm worthless" with "it upsets me when I do X, because I like to think of myself as the sort of person who wouldn't do X", and otherwise moving away from the harsher and more judgmental language into feelings that might be easier to acknowledge without quite as much internal anger. I will admit that your mom's historical pattern of behavior does not suggest much hope for successfully communicating with her.
Yeah but the thing is, she doesnt have to say them /to you/. Decent people, nevermind good parents, would maybe say 'im really upset, I need a minute,' and go rant to themselves/their mates/their friends/whoever until they felt better and then go deal with their kid when they could be loving. Shes asking you to a)be hurt and b)put aside your being hurt immediately to take care of her, and that is not how healthy people deal with their emotions. Like, its not the right thing for a little kid to do to their parent, and kids have a reasonable expectation of their parents helping them emotionally regulate. The reverse is just. Not right. Edit: also the internet thing you described for comparison is asshole behavior as well. Hurting others to make yourself feel better is dickish regardless of the power dynamics.
