Not sure where else to put this.

Discussion in 'Brainbent' started by local troublemaker, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. local troublemaker

    local troublemaker professional tumblrina

    I think it's sort of hit-and-miss; I think rigs can be unnecessarily antagonistic towards obviously vulnerable people over shit that doesn't matter. I also feel like trying to be nice while disagreeing gets you accused of being manipulative, or backpedaling, or generally doing something Sneaky And Underhanded.

    Onsite issues are a problem, too. I just don't see them being very likely to be dealt with, because that's not how the powers-that-be run things and human nature does not incline us to be good when all behavior is acceptable (albeit varying degrees of desired.)

    I get what people were going for with the whole "no rules" thing. I think it ends up working very well for some people, and it's a nightmare for others.
    I think a site culture exists, and the lack of formal rules absolutely do not prevent people creating unwritten rules, which end up contradicting each other. There 100% are rules on this site; there's just no consistent idea of what they are, who has to follow them, and what the protocol is if you break them.
    • Like x 11
  2. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I can't exactly say why for others, but I can make guesses as to why angry-polite ends up working better. At least with myself I don't trust most nice people in certain circumstances. I'm paranoid and highly defensive in general and at times niceness just is impossible to read. The angry thing is blunt and often unpleasant, yes, but it's easier for me to read that as "This is a trustworthy statement. This person isn't lying" than I can niceness.
    • Like x 4
  3. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    Oh absolutely, I just meant in terms of how you get treated by the people around you based on attitude.

    I think you're right on the "nice while disagreeing --> manipulative" thing, too, at least if you don't have an established Site Presence.
    • Like x 2
  4. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    That is why I am the shitlord.
    • Like x 5
  5. local troublemaker

    local troublemaker professional tumblrina

    Hey, you don't need to be sorry. I really don't care if people like me at this point. My goal isn't to make everyone hate me as much as possible, but if people do hate me I can live with it. I'm not going to turn cartwheels in an attempt to nice myself up enough for them to hate me less, because that's exhausting and doesn't work anyways.

    I think it's kind of a double-edged sword, in that a lot of people will try to avoid me because Conflict so there's possible discussion missed out on there, or just try to outdo me in terms of being a bitter shit.

    The question that will inevitably come up while trying to make a site culture thread is: what are you trying to achieve? Remember, we don't have Rules, so whatever the decided course of action, it relies entirely upon people being able to sustain that out of goodwill and self-motivation.

    Agreed, largely, and I think a general Tumblr Ethics thread would go the same way ("Hey, this seems like a morally unsound thing to do" "Yeah, but they were morally unsound first and they're like, really really bad so it's ok.")
    • Like x 3
  6. local troublemaker

    local troublemaker professional tumblrina

    And being angry will inevitably make some people distrust you, just like being nice will inevitably make someone else distrust Can't Win, so you may as well just say "fuck it" and do the best you can.
    • Like x 4
  7. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Pretty much, yes. It's not the best thing, but there's not much that can be done about it. SO I WILL JUST BE AON. And you will just be our local troublemaker.
    • Like x 2
  8. local troublemaker

    local troublemaker professional tumblrina

    I think it's possibly it's less even to do with established presence and more to do with how far the view you're presenting strays from baseline kintsugi.
    • Like x 2
  9. local troublemaker

    local troublemaker professional tumblrina

    This is quite possibly one of the most heartwarming things I've ever read.
    • Like x 3
  10. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    Yeah, but I think a person with a known history of views that are fairly close to baseline kintsugi is going to get given more leeway in taking a view that's farther out.
  11. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Define "rule".
  12. keltka

    keltka the green and brown one

    oh cool okay! I err towards the side of "TRY TO BE DECENTLY OKAYISH WITH EVERYONE" which is hella taxing but a hard habit to break :/ so damn, good for you on not needing to go for that

    I mean to be fair if you can bounce things in a neutral way then you might be able to get the best-ish of both worlds? nothing's ever gonna be completely perfect and holy fuck brain stop trying to turn this into hannah montana puns.

    greater awareness of miscommunication re: unwritten rules and site culture!
    if people are talking to each other instead of talking over then it might help a bit more?
    kind of like a permanent "could have gone better" sort of thing but pre-could have gone better
    wow I'm not making sense apologies
  13. local troublemaker

    local troublemaker professional tumblrina

    Tried it, didn't like it. I still don't ENJOY having people be mad at me, but I can live with it.

    Honestly, I don't think anything reads as "neutral" in a situation where you're disagreeing with someone.

    Difficult to get to when 1) people won't acknowledge the unwritten rules exist, 2) people have different sets of rules that contradict each other, 3) the solution would require everyone to either never step on the rules or to come to a consensus on What To Do when rule is broken, which would first require acknowledgement that it's a rule, and also that there is a rule for what to do when you break the rule, etc etc.
    Even if there was a complete consensus on "this is how people should behave", at that point it's reliant on every person actually doing that. Going by events, that doesn't seem too likely to me.
    • Like x 2
  14. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya return of eggplant

    no, it also make sense if you take "kintsugi" in this case to also refer to the general site culture and the opinions that the vocal majority of kintsugijin hold
    1. one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere.
    there is no special definition of rule going on here, it just so happens that in this case the rules are implicit rather than explicit. you might be the dictator, but you can't dictate what people on kintsugi think. even though you wanted a site without explicit rules, the people here created unspoken ones instead, unspoken rules with social consequences rather than administrative ones
    • Like x 9
  15. keltka

    keltka the green and brown one

    OH shit no I meant in like...a general sense? like not during a disagreement
    opening discussion-based dialogue on a more neutral front? I think I got my wires crossed somewhere

    groan, okay, good point :/
    maybe it'd be better if set up as "how do you THINK x should be handled/happens/is or isn't allowed"? but idk it might be an exercise in futility at this point
    people might be into it or might not?
    I think I'm getting a little too brain spinny rn so I might tap out of further thoughts, but I guess overall I don't think it'd hurt to try talking about it? I tend to err towards the side of "over information" though, so I'm a biased point of data :D
  16. rje

    rje here comes the sun

    I'm asking this because specific anxiety issues, am I included as a target of your earlier site vaguing? And if so, can u tell me for what reason so i can work on it if work is needed
  17. palindromordnilap

    palindromordnilap Well-Known Member

    Basically, this but downplayed:
  18. Petra

    Petra space case

    Confession time: I'm so vain I think all the vagues are about me.

    More on topic: Nazi-punching makes you as bad as nazis is an annoying and stupid viewpoint. My own is that in an ideal world you wouldn't ever have to deal with things with violence and non-violent conflict resolution makes it harder for people to twist your stances into that of an immediate danger to them, as long as your stance isn't that people need to drop dead. I can say that I don't think it's great to punch people who aren't physically attacking you while also not really thinking it's that bad depending on the circumstances.

    I'm cliquey in that I do definitely have my friend groups I hang out with outside of kintsugi, although a lot of those are role-play oriented or people I knew before Kintsugi. I don't like the trend of painting things with the brush of 'tumblr culture' when you mean, like, antis or terfs or callout culture. I try to be compassionate towards everyone and I fail a lot but I do try, and hell yeah it's nice to feel like the Good Guy defending from the Bad Guys but I also try not to fall into that trap of us or them thinking, which in turn makes me simultaniously convinced I'm a really nice and compassionate person and that I'm an empty shell performatively carrying out actions that align with my worldview. If I think I'm doing such a good job, that must mean I'm actually doing a terrible job.
    • Like x 6
  19. Petra

    Petra space case

    I considered sub-accounting that but whatever. Wouldn't be catharsis w/o social consequences lmao.
    • Like x 2
  20. local troublemaker

    local troublemaker professional tumblrina

    Only if you pay me royalties.
    • Like x 3
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