(not sure what the right board for this is but this is my best guess) So, it seems to me the general attitude to vegans here is that they all suck and as someone who thinks veganism is right in some situations I want to argue against that. I'll respond to some of the arguments I've seen, and to followups that seem obvious to me. "~But what about the poor plants, don't you care about them?~" If you mean "I don't care about animals at all and I think caring about animals is stupid", my only counterargument is that I think I actually just have different values from you. If you don't mean that, you should know that's how this argument makes you sound, at least to me. The fact that some people do, in fact, think that and have said as much contributes to this. "Some people can't be vegan for health reasons/economic reasons/mental health reasons." Sure. I'm not actually saying everyone should be vegan. "Sure factory farms are bad, but I buy animal products from local farmers who I know treat their animals well." Good for you. Some of us live in big cities. "If there are good vegans, why don't they call out the bad vegans?" Maybe because they're conflict-averse. Maybe because there's a gap between "not wanting to be a dick" and "being able to articulate why you shouldn't be a dick". Maybe because the "bad vegans" they know are coming from sufficiently different places that they couldn't argue productively. For example, there's conflict between "Rightist" vegans who think keeping animals captive is inherently wrong and "Welfarist" vegans who just think the way animals are currently kept are unacceptable. "Okay, but why don't you argue with them?" Partly because I'm not vegan; I live in a country where, according to animal welfare groups, none of our dairy and little of our beef is factory farmed so I'm relatively happy eating those things. "Vegans want to kill your pets." I know vegans who have pets. I do know some vegans (a minority of the vegans I know) who think that in an ideal society no-one would have pets, but even they want to get there through spaying and neutering rather than through killing. "The fruit and vegetable industries are deeply dependent on the honey industry." Most of the vegans I know eat honey. The ones who don't stopped eating honey years after they started calling themselves vegans. "Fruit and vegetable farms exploit their workers, while abatoirs provide jobs to desperately poor people with no other options." On the other hand, abatoirs exploit their workers while fruit and vegetable farms provide jobs to desperately poor people with no other options. I would be interested in arguments as to whether one or the other is better, but note that that would be either a case for veganism or a case for trying to have as animal-based a diet as possible. "Actually, some fruit and vegetable farms are worked by slaves." True. So are some livestock farms, so are parts of the prawn industry, and I expect some fodder farms are too. I do in fact try to avoid eating food produced using slave labour but I'm not convinced vegan diets are especially bad in that regard.