Profile post discussion [split]

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by AbsenteeLandlady123, May 31, 2016.

  1. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    Repeating my metaphor of stepping on toes... I'm reading the last few posts as:
    "hey guys, please do not do this thing, because it steps on my toes and hurts a little"
    "but people asked me to walk through there"
    "but... that stepped on my toes, could you go in this other direction that steps on your own toes instead?"
    "no, i don't want to step on my own toes"
     
    • Like x 1
  2. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    @prismaticvoid If I'd been in the situation of needing an example of stuff that might be triggery, I don't know that I could've just used my own posts because I don't recall off the top of my head doing the thing. It was a useful specific example, not a judgement on you for posting it
     
  3. aspectDestroyed

    aspectDestroyed Hal | Actual Robot

    I believe the point that is being made is:

    A lot of people can and will be triggered by someone saying something explicitly triggery in the one place there is no TW. I know I have noped the fuck outta here several times when i see something about self harm, or rape. like, to the point i cant hardly stomach looking at the front page, and do everything in my power to avoid it, which means, i confine myself to literally one thread because i dont want to tell people what to do because the last time that happened i was ridiculed.
     
    • Like x 4
  4. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    No???
    I didn't remember who made the post
     
  5. prismaticvoid

    prismaticvoid Too Too Abstract

    I know. I don't agree that a specific example was necessary.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    Then take that up with @Wiwaxia, I didn't do the thing.
     
    • Like x 2
  7. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Yeah, I can sorta see that. I think the problem is in part that Kathy didn't remember who made the post, and didn't have an obvious way to find it. (I only just now found a way to search profile posts, and I don't know whether everyone gets that option?) And she didn't intend the specific post to be a particular example or hold it up to scrutiny, it was just what started her thinking about the thing. It wasn't really the topic of discussion, it just happened to be the most recent example that came to mind when someone was asked about a thing, I think? But at the same time, I sorta see how it would feel like being talked about. I dunno what to suggest. For a concrete example, I simply don't use the profile post thing enough to have made many posts there, so I might not have examples from my stuff.

    And I think sometimes, if you're really thinking more generally rather than specifically, it makes sense to say "I think there was a post sort of like X recently", without remembering it or even remembering whether that's actually what it said, because the specific case doesn't really matter to the discussion, except that someone asked for an example, I guess?
     
    • Like x 3
  8. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    I'm referring only to the last few posts, not the posts in which the reference was made. The ones since @prismaticvoid came into this thread. I know you didn't remember who made the post! I am not contesting that in any way.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. prismaticvoid

    prismaticvoid Too Too Abstract

    I might be being irrational. I don't know.
     
  10. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    Partly its that the forum software is pretty limited especially with the status box. Personally, I'm fine if an individual has the brainmeats for the filler thing or any other solution and wants to do that instead, so long as the objective of "not putting unwarned and unavoidable triggery material on the front page" is achieved. "Don't post triggery material to the status box" is just a simpler general policy to say/remember
     
    • Like x 1
  11. prismaticvoid

    prismaticvoid Too Too Abstract

    I'm unsure I have anything useful to post here re: the actual conversation so I'm gonna stop. Sorry for the derail.
     
  12. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Well, for one thing, it's surprisingly hard to step on your own toes. I mean, both sets at once. For another, slightly less literal, issue: Not everyone uses the profile post feature in the same way, and only some kinds of posts in it could actually conceivably be examples. So someone who doesn't use it that way can't use their own posts as examples.

    I do agree that it might have made sense to not use a specific example, but it's pretty understandable to respond to a request with "I don't remember specifics, but there was a post recently that said X".

    I guess my issue here is, it sounds like you're saying Kathy did something wrong, but I can't identify a point at which she actually made a decision that I would disagree with given the information available at the time?
     
    • Like x 4
  13. aspectDestroyed

    aspectDestroyed Hal | Actual Robot

    it may be irrational, but i do get the same way when i am being talked about.
    the thing is, kathy wasnt trying to say anyone was bad, but it was probably a few too many times something has happened, and decided to say something, was prompted to give an example, and she stated what last upset her, and no one bothered to look for the post or dispute whether it was shitty or you were shitty, or anything.
    (the status was a good point, but yeah, it might have gone better somewhere else)
    she wasnt the one who pulled you into it by any means. its a general thing, and i think ive seen it before
     
    • Like x 3
  14. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    It is way easier to say and remember... just difficult for some of us to enact. I at least go "but, is this triggery? I don't know? :psyduck:"

    At which point the request for tools/guidelines/advice becomes a request for "what things are likely to be triggery?" I know that it's difficult-to-impossible to have a comprehensive list... but it's easier for some of us to have a list to look at, and compare to, then to check in our own heads without the external resource.
     
    • Like x 3
  15. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    What seebs said is true. Also, it seems kind of odd to require that somebody making a point about something happening that they want changed to then find an example of themselves doing that selfsame thing. Because for one, if they are of the opinion that X feature should not be used in such a way, it is likely that they have not been using it in said way, and also it seems odd to expect people to have to say "look at how I did this thing that I shouldn't have done (according to my new proposed guideline)!" whenever they want to make forum policy suggestions.
     
    • Like x 4
  16. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    People keep accusing me of stuff I haven't done, and reading into things I haven't said, and it's getting really really distressing.
    Please just. Read the thing I write. And believe that's what I'm talking about.
    I wouldn't have mentioned that specific thing if I hadn't been told to give an example of the thing that was upsetting me. Which wasn't even necessary because my OP stated what I was upset about. I specifically didn't mention the specific thing I was upset about in the OP to avoid this exact situation, and I am really distressed this is happening.

    @prismaticvoid I'm not upset at you, and once I knew you were the one who made the post I specifically did not @ you so you wouldn't feel attacked or singled out, and I'm sorry this whole situation is a clusterfuck
     
    • Like x 5
  17. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Thinking it through more: I think this may be a collision of perfectly reasonable social expectations. Kathy seems to have been trying to avoid naming or identifying people because that would look like calling them out, but there was a specific post which had been the recent example that came to mind. She didn't really want to go searching for posts to pick a post, or identify a user, so at any given point, she was acting in the way which minimized the degree to which anyone got pointed at... But then that ended up being subject to interpretation as "talking about me behind my back", which I don't think was at all the intent. But I can see how it would parse that way.

    But if you start out not plannning to identify specifics or people, and then get pressed for details, it's easy for that to end up happening, and at no point does anyone have to be acting in bad faith for it to happen that way, it just sorta works out that way. :(
     
    • Like x 7
  18. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    That seems reasonable-ish. I'm not sure myself. I just have a general intuition of "probably upsetting to people" that is not particularly reliable. So I'm not sure I could articulate it.
     
  19. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    That was an explicit quote of Beldaran's post here.That was the thing I had objections to. I have no problem with your original post, although I would personally prefer solutions along the lines of "don't make profile posts directly visible on the front page". I probably should have made that more explicit when I posted it.

    I asked for examples because I did not get and continue not to get the distinction between "distressed noises in the status box" and "saying triggery stuff" I stand by asking for examples, but @prismaticvoid is within their rights to be upset about being talked about more or less behind their back. I don't know that there's fault here, but I did step on their toes, and I'm sorry. Also yeah, Kathy didn't even mention the explicit post, I just happened to notice it was one of the ones I had dug up and linked.
     
    • Like x 2
  20. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    Yeah, this.
     
    • Like x 1
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