Protocol for attempting to defuse pile-ups

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by Exohedron, May 27, 2015.

  1. Chiomi

    Chiomi Master of Disaster

    I think conscientiousness about wanting to preserve a community we can all feel safe in would serve well, and I don't think we necessarily need a code word: if it's widely known enough to be useful, it's no longer code.

    And I would volunteer as a mediator, but my skills are mostly derailment, critiquing writing, and shouting at everyone, which do not seem like they would be a productive skillset in this context.
    • Like x 2
  2. name

    name Member

    37 Ways Words Can Be Wrong, Translated Into Normal-People-Ese And Rephrased A Lot With Different Examples:

    Sometimes you're using words in ways that confuse you and other people. Then sometimes you think you disagree when you don't. Or you just don't understand each other. Just using the dictionary doesn't mean you're using words the best way. Here are some ways your word choices can get in the way:
    1. Your words have nothing to do with the real world. Maybe they're made up. Maybe you're lying. Maybe you're part of tumblr SJ.
    2. You're arguing that a thing is true "by definition". Like if you say "misogyny is hatred of women, so by definition trans men, who are men, can't experience it". And if you say "trans men are men by definition" that doesn't mean they share all the experiences of cis men, it just means that's how you're using the word "men". It doesn't prove anything except that people you call men are people you call men.
    3. Same as 2. He made the same point twice in different words.
    4. You say you're using one definition but really use another. Like if you say "I'm defining men to be people who don't experience misogyny!" but then you decide that a bearded male-identifying person named Adam is a man even though people used to treat him like a woman. Or if you say "I'm defining misogyny so it has to be directed at women to count" and then see someone get catcalled and don't ask the person "do you identify as female?" before you decide the catcall was misogyny.
    5. You use a word for things that have two things in common when you don't know if those things go together. Like if you used "man" to mean "cis man" and "woman" to mean "cis woman" then you might get confused if you wanted to know what to call trans people. The example he used is: if you see a bunch of blue eggs and red cubes, and decide to call them cutesy names like "bleggs" and "rubes", and then reach someplace you can't see to feel for more shapes, and feel an egg shape, and you think "oh, that's a blegg", maybe you're wrong and it's not blue.
    6. You keep trying to define things with weird abstract definitions like "what's 'red'? Red is a color, and a color is a property of a thing, and a property is..." when it would be easier to say "that stop-sign and that traffic light and that apple are all red".
    7. You do something really weird like saying "red is a spiritual essence that you can feel if you stand naked under the full moon. Oh, hey, a red apple!"
    8. You say you're defining a thing based on one or two traits but you're really using more. Like how Plato said he was defining humans as featherless animals that walk on two legs, so another philosopher pointed out that that meant plucked chickens were human.
    9. You act like if a word describes a category of things, all the things have to be normal for the category all the time or else they're not in the category. Like people who are like, "trans men are men, therefore everything that's true of 'men' is true of trans men!"
    10. You have a definition that works well enough but you nitpick about times when it isn't technically true even though everyone knows what's meant. Like how not all humans have ten fingers or whatever.
    11. You want to know the answer to one question but you think you want to know the answer to another. If you want to know whether "trans men are men" and are getting confused (actually confused, not "oh, I'm too confused to use your pronouns, what is gender, I never question it around cis people for some reason"), maybe you really want to ask "should trans men be allowed to call themselves men?" or "do trans men need prostate exams?" or "do straight women ever think trans men are attractive?"
    12. I don't understand this one. Someone else want to try to explain?
    13. You think dictionary definitions of words are sacred instead of seeing them as things you made up to make it easier to talk with people.
    14. You know everything related to whether a thing belongs in a category but you still care if it goes in the category. He uses his weird bleggs example. Another example: if for some reason you know a person's gender identity, pronoun preference, body type, ASAB, surgery & hormone status, and everything else there is to know about whether/how they've transitioned, you don't have anything else to learn by asking "so are they really a man or a woman?" You know what they are inside, you know what they are outside, you know their history, the question is pointless.
    15. You get distracted arguing about definitions instead of about what you were trying to argue about.
    16. You think words Really Mean Things instead of being arbitrary names that only exist to make talking possible.
    17. You both understand each other's different definitions but you keep arguing about which one is right.
    18. You use a dictionary to answer a question about facts or morals. If everyone's making a mistake, chances are the dictionary is making the same mistake.
    19. You use a dictionary at all.
    20. You redefine words for no reason so no one can "fast stand up plutonium with bagels without handle."
    21. You define a word so it means some obscure thing, then argue that since someone/thing is that word they are the obscure thing. "Socrates is human, therefore mortal" sounds more like you actually said something than "Socrates is a mortal featherless biped, therefore mortal".
    22. You get into arguments that could be solved by not using a particular word and instead describing what you actually mean.
    23. You use single words for complicated things and don't understand the complicated things so you don't know what you're talking about.
    24. You use the same word for two different things
    25. You think there are patterns where there aren't any. Like what kind of personalities people with different blood types have.
    26. Imagine if "wiggin" was a word in the dictionary and the dictionary said it meant "anyone with green eyes and black hair". Imagine if people used the word to mean someone who committed crimes and hurt squirrels. Then imagine if someone said "look, he has green eyes and black hair, it's TRUE that he's a wiggin, so he's going to steal the silverware!"
    27. If you argue that whatever is a whatever "by definition" you're probably trying to do 26. If you say "Socrates has two legs and no feathers and that's the definition of human, so by definition, Socrates is human", then you're probably trying to argue something like "and therefore Socrates is like other humans in even more ways!" because if you were actually arguing about whether Socrates had two legs and no feathers, the other person would say something like, "What do you mean, two legs? That's what we're arguing about in the first place!"
    28. If you wonder whether hemlock will kill Socrates and you see Socrates doing things that would make him immune to hemlock, you shouldn't say "but humans, by definition, are mortal!"
    29. You wouldn't say "Hinduism is a religion, by definition, because it has beliefs abuot God/s and the afterlife!" but you would say "atheism is a religion, by definition, because it has beliefs about God and the afterlife!" and that's probably because atheism is less like a religion than Hinduism, so you feel like you need to say it's true "by definition" because you don't have a better argument.
    30. You define a word so it refers to things that don't have anything to do with each other. Like if you decided to redefine the word "fish" to include dolphins.
    31. You use short, simple words for complicated things that don't happen often, and you use long words or phrases for simple, common things.
    32. You define a word to include anything with x, y and z traits when x, y and z don't go together unusually often. Like, why would the hypothetical people from earlier need a word for "black-haired green-eyed criminals" when black hair, green eyes and criminality don't go together?
    33. You define a word to exclude things you have no reason to exclude. His example is "I randomly decided I need a word to refer to all humans, except if they're black". Pretty suspicious!
    34. He linked to this article about Bayesianism and refused to summarize.
    35. I don't understand this one.
    36. I don't understand this one.
    37. You think you can define words however you want.
    Does that help at all?
    • Like x 1
  3. Vacuum Energy

    Vacuum Energy waterwheel on the stream of entropy

    Let me try.

    Okay, so say you're in a mall, and you observe someone who is wearing a dress and has long hair. You can make a decent guess as to their gender identity from that. To a lesser extent, you can guess their assigned sex at birth. To an even lesser extent, if this person's got traveling companions, you can even make a guess as to what their sexual orientation is. While someone's presentation isn't perfectly correlated to their gender identity (cf. people in the closet), they are correlated enough that you can't say that "dress has absolutely nothing to do with the gender you want to be perceived as". Because in most people's reasoning, it does correlate.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice