PSA: Not everything moderators do is announced.

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    This is not the first, or third, or even fifth time this has come up.

    Not every moderator action or change gets announced. There's people who don't have the ability to send PMs. There's people who can't create subaccounts. There's people who have posts reviewed by moderators before posting. Posts get deleted. Posts get moved.

    That you are not seeing the thing doesn't mean it didn't happen.

    We do have an intentionally very light degree of moderation here. Sometimes too light. In some cases, we'll have conflicting requirements and try to balance them. For instance, someone might be on post moderation, but then they are having a discussion that's moving quickly and people start jumping on them for not replying, because moderators aren't sitting around waiting eagerly to approve every post within 30 seconds or less. So we take them off moderation... then we are reminded why they were on moderation.

    But seriously, a lot of work is actually happening here. We've had days with 30+ reports, plus a lot of PMs, plus moderation queue, etcetera.
     
  2. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    "This announcement is to announce there is no announcement."
     
    • Like x 15
  3. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

  4. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Pretty much.

    We have this recurring thing where we don't make a big public showing of shaming the Bad Person, and then people, plural, complain that we're "doing nothing" about the alleged problem. No, we're usually doing stuff. Sometimes there's significant components of what's wrong that aren't the sort of thing moderator powers can fix. I can't make someone calmer by editing posts. I can't bring back friends that were driven away. I can't fix that shit.
     
    • Like x 4
  5. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    Can I ask if there's a reason why these mod activities aren't announced? Like I'm not talking about mundane stuff like splitting off Derails into new topic threads, stuff like "This situation is being addressed" would be monumentally helpful as far as communication witht he user base goes? I'm not saiyng you have to announce what you are doing all the time, I'm just asking if tehre's a reason for why it's not happening because it seems really counter intuitive to me.
     
    • Like x 14
  6. palindromordnilap

    palindromordnilap Well-Known Member

     
  7. NevermorePoe

    NevermorePoe Nevermore

    From moderating a forum and minecraft server before, a large part of it is kind of a confidentiality thing. If you were arrested you wouldn't want to be publicly shamed. If I was put on post moderation, I wouldn't want people to know the reason, or have it broadcast to everyone. Another big reason is that there is a lot of moderation stuff that happens behind the scenes that people wouldn't necessarily know, things like posts being approved (this one could easily have dozens, or even hundreds of posts, depending on how active the posters are, and how many there are.) threads being moved, and locked, and just reviewing any reported posts, and deciding what, if any action to do. With all of that, announcing everything a mod might be doing might just make a wall of text. I don't know if that's quite how it works on Kintsugi, but that's how it worked for us back on the forum I used to mod.
     
    • Like x 6
  8. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    I mean yes that's why I said "not every mundane thing".
    Personally I don't see it as shaming to publicly announce that certain users have lost certain privileges like editing/making sub accounts or are placed on moderation. I see it as a transparency thing. But that's my opinion.

    I'm not talking to you about this, @palindromordnilap, and Seebs and Beldaran are two different people. Seebs said they are not going to make announcements. I asked seebs why. Beldaran having made an announcement is not a reason why seebs is not making announcements.
     
    • Like x 7
  9. Xavius Emeritus

    Xavius Emeritus Suit Monkey

    I will say that at the moment the lack of announcement has been frustrating to the few duties I have to do. Right now, relating to the situation that unfolded last night, the lack of communication has me wondering whether I should do something. I'm inclined to make a thread addressing the difficulties that arose in the Skype and elsewhere and discuss what we're doing about them. In fact, I came to this board for that reason, because Alix can't see TCHGB, and I was going to make a discussion thread they could participate in. Then I read this, and stopped short, because if I did that I might be stepping on the other mods' toes and bungling their efforts.

    The problem? I still don't know, for sure, if I even would be if I made it.

    I'm actually not sure what action has been taken, and I feel somewhat removed from moderation discussion thus far on issues taking place...aka that whatever moderation discussion there may have thus far been, I haven't been in on any of it. So now I'm sitting here twiddling my fingers and it looks like the moderators are doing nothing, and, as one of the mods, I have to say, transparently, I don't actually know what we're doing. If we are doing things behind the scenes, it might help to have a group chat or something to keep us all informed at the very least.

    I understand why keeping things private is a good idea, but I advocate for transparency.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
    • Like x 15
  10. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    Ohhhhh. Well now I feel silly.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. Xavius Emeritus

    Xavius Emeritus Suit Monkey

    yeah i was kinda gonna pm you in a minute sorry yo
     
    • Like x 1
  12. NevermorePoe

    NevermorePoe Nevermore

    Isn't there a staff only thread where people log activities so the other mods know whats going on?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
    • Like x 1
  13. Xavius Emeritus

    Xavius Emeritus Suit Monkey

    If there is, I've either not been directed there, lack sufficient permissions to see it, or just blindly missed it.
     
  14. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    There are no staff-only threads. There's a top sekrit admin forum only jesse and I see which has one non-joke thread in it where I said "please don't use this it's a joke" pretty much.

    Historically, the staff population was small enough and married enough that there was no reason to have anything of the sort. So we haven't really done anything. In theory Jesse and I and I think Beldaran can see reports, Xavius and Snitch just have thread lock/unlock.

    And fundamentally, a lot of the problems that need attention aren't things where moderator powers provide any additional utility for addressing the problems. You can't edit posts until people are sane.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    A little more communication would be nice though. Just a "we are aware of of the issue and addressing it." You don't neccesarily have to include details about what's being done or with who, just something to let us know that you see the thing and are doing something. It does a lot to reassure folks
     
    • Like x 16
  16. Xavius Emeritus

    Xavius Emeritus Suit Monkey

    I do feel like just for avoiding things like this, some kind of mod conversation sitting around would be a good idea, whether it's some topic we can see or just a PM conversation where someone can drop "Hey, locking X thread, you guys mind reviewing that in a bit" without opening a whole new PM convo every time anything goes south to all get caught up or waiting for one of us to elaborate in public so we're not falling over each other.
     
    • Like x 8
  17. Snitchanon

    Snitchanon What's a mod to a nonbeliever.

    I think extending @Xavius or my Modly Powers to reports and/or moderation queue stuff would be a pretty decent idea, for timezone coverage reasons.
     
    • Like x 6
  18. Xavius Emeritus

    Xavius Emeritus Suit Monkey

    I would prefer it on both of us simply because it's hard for us to be interfering if we don't know where the drama even is unless we bumble into it. That also makes it look like we're actively, purposely not doing anything if we're online and don't seem to be responding to reports. I really don't see the harm in making us see what situations we need to get to.
     
    • Like x 6
  19. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    @seebs can I please get an answer to this question?
     
    • Like x 3
  20. emythos

    emythos Lipstick Hoarding Dragon

    um, about deleting posts
    unless it's like deleting a double post, would it be okay to put like, deleted on where they were? so that it's not like huge chunks of everything are suddenly disappearing?
     
    • Like x 9
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