seebs, please explain why you're doing the thing

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by unknownanonymous, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. cleverThylacine

    cleverThylacine cuddles for the weird and the fierce

    Yes. Really extremely incredibly undesireable.

    I'm sitting here being calm because I'm at work and I have to, and also because I went through this with my Lightning War game twice. But I also don't have incredibly detailed threads here about the abuse I've suffered and I do have other ways (Discord, Subeta, Facebook, etc) to contact most of the people here that I care about a lot.

    Not everyone can say that. I have the mental image of a lot of people lying around in the fetal position feeling pretty miserable and freaking out and if you're trying to help unbreak people I'm going to gently suggest that I don't think this will have the effect that you want it to have.
    • Like x 12
  2. ASPD Anon

    ASPD Anon Vagitarian

    The nuclear option has never gone badly.
    • Like x 17
  3. shmeed

    shmeed plant me

    +1 extremely undesirable for personal reasons

    also, my abuse thread would make me uncomfortable to leave up, but for other survivors who aren't as free from their situations, having something like that archived without their warning could be dangerous for them. even if it's unlikely their abuser would find it, i can't imagine the terror of knowing something was up there, out there, and you can't delete it.
    • Like x 15
  4. Toby

    Toby vinny say something funny [18+]

    Additionally you could have a set subforum for new users on top of that ToS agreement (Basically the new users cannot use any forum but that subforum for a set amount of time) It would help in filtering out people you feel might cause unneeded drama.
    • Like x 7
  5. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Merely a whitebait in the mayo of life

    i'm sick of being reasonable because apparently it has zero impact on any fucking thing so i'm just gonna kick my feet like a baby and scream and STILL nobody is going to listen to me
    • Like x 3
  6. BaseDeltaZero

    BaseDeltaZero Shitposting all night.

    Basically, archive all the current threads and start a new forum section? Is creating a specific archive-section something that can be done?

    Also, maybe bringing some of the more recent inoffensive threads and/or forums? I don't see why, say, the Fan-Fiction Gripes thread needs to get locked.
    • Like x 3
  7. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    You know, I totally get this, but: Have you considered how many people viewed it that way, and then left because the lack of any moderation of bad behavior made them feel unsafe? Because that's what is really driving this; at any given time, the number of people who don't feel safe because there's nothing you can point to to ask that someone stop hurting you, and expect the mods to say "yes, that's a good point", is pretty significant.

    And fixing that requires (1) adding the rule, (2) trying to ensure that there's some kind of (minimal, if at all possible) discontinuity to allow people to start interacting within that new framework.
    • Like x 1
  8. Morgan Jae

    Morgan Jae pecure. sontain. crotect.

    noah fence but it's going to be a much more minimal effect to add one (1) rule to kintsugi than to NUKE THE ENTIRE FUCKING FORUM
    • Like x 21
  9. NevermorePoe

    NevermorePoe Nevermore

    I think something that might not have been considered is whether or not the whole forum - accounts, posts etc. are being moved, or if we're just going to have two forums now, and one we just can't post in. It sounds to me like seebs is making one forum, posting all of the old forum stuff in a special subforum. I don't know if accounts are being moved over as well, but given Seebs stating that she doesn't want to lose data if possible, i'm guessing that the user accounts would be moved over as well if at all possible.
    • Like x 2
  10. Codeless

    Codeless Cheshire Cat

    I Also fins moving undesirable, I do not have the knowledge or the spoons to archive my content in any way, and while I can move and rebuold, I am likely to lose friends who cannot.
    • Like x 10
  11. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Okay I think there's some kind of communications thing happening here.

    There is no anticipated change to whether or not you can, say, delete an abuse-discussion thread. None. Nothing like that would change. The only change would be whether or not new posts could be made in that thread without it being pulled into New Forums Space or something.
    • Like x 7
  12. Mendacity

    Mendacity I’m meaner than my demons

    I figured that's what it was, so at least I know I can go back and ask you to delete shit if the flying florida lawyer cops come after me.

    But that's the problem! If I go hounding for like, the old bees thread like I did a little while ago I would find a highly relatable thread and... be unable to reply to it. Sure, I can make my own but what if I wanted input from those people? I could ping them, sure, but it twigs my 'things must be in the same place' issue. It's frustrating on a good day, enraging on a bad.

    I should explain: Part of my problem with 'new starts' like this is that there is no such thing. I can't shove all of my abuse / mistakes / stupid choices into the background and say "No, that was old me!" No one gets to do that, and it feels... Weird? I guess that's the word, weird. It's weird that a forum with a pointedly recovery focused style is going the way of "No, things went bad but we're doing it right this time." I think it's a thing that I generally try to follow, and I'm pretty sure it would make me highly uncomfortable on the new forum. Which is a pity, because I'm gonna miss some folks.
    • Like x 16
  13. Snitchanon

    Snitchanon What's a mod to a nonbeliever.

    Disambiguation: Nothing is definite yet.

    This is why we have warnings. So we can discuss this kind of stuff.
    People (Staff and hangers-on) are discussing the wording of the rules, the content of the rules, what exactly they want from this new way of doing things and whether we want a new forum at all.
    The strong reaction is an indication that upping sticks and moving somewhere else would likely not be desireable, which is valuable information for the people arguing about this.

    And if something drastic is going to happen, you will get another warning. None of this is happening instantly. That is why a warning was made.
    Honestly, I think it may well take months before something really drastic happens, and if it's less drastic, maybe a few weeks. This is not happening quickly.

    TL;DR - The forums aren't going anywhere soon.

    • Like x 21
  14. Maya

    Maya smug_anime_girl.jpg

    Bad plan.

    Experiments are not these set in stone things where once you set your plan, your hypothesis, thats it, you have to go through with that plan and stick with it. You CAN make changes. If water doesnt freeze at 47 degrees you dont abandon that experiment and move on, you crank down the temperature and continue on your way. If you want to add the one true rule™ then do it. We're not a bunch of fucking heathens who can't read and change our behavior if we break the rule.
    • Like x 11
  15. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Merely a whitebait in the mayo of life

    i used to trust seebs and think they were reasonable but i don't fucking any more
    • Like x 3
  16. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I like having my already shit mood ruined even further.
    • Like x 4
  17. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    So I was thinking about "make a new site", but clearly that is not viable. Which I sorta suspected, but.

    So basically: You know how there's top-level categories like "chatter" or whatever? Imagine that there's a new top-level category, "The Undercity", and the entire current set of forums/categories/etc are all now under that, and then there's new forums mirroring some-to-most of the current structure.

    "New" forums, but same site, same login info, etc.
    • Like x 4
  18. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Merely a whitebait in the mayo of life

    no that's dumb
    • Like x 4
  19. TwoBrokenMirrors

    TwoBrokenMirrors Merely a whitebait in the mayo of life

    it still forces everyone to start over
    • Like x 13
  20. Chiomi

    Chiomi Master of Disaster

    "Ankh-Morpork is built on black loam, broadly, but is mostly built on itself; pragmatic citizens simply built on top of the existing buildings when the sediment grew too high as the river flooded, rather than excavate them out."

    The drama, rot, and toxic behavior are all like sediment. I think archiving things and building fresh on top will be a good thing - building fresh and with a better understanding of what we want and need.
    • Like x 9
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