you can't really say that someone's flouncing if the reason why they are leaving the argument is because you are unwilling to engage anyone in good faith, unwilling to defend your claims when they press on them, and are unwilling to engage in ways that aren't emotionally abusive. this reads as if you are making fun of beldaran for not being willing to take her justly deserved lumps. when vastderp gets into debates with people, there are conditions i've noticed that must always be present to him, or else he will not engage this way. the opposing party is engaging in an abusive, manipulative, toxic, misleading, or otherwise dishonest manner. the opposing party must be the first to engage in some way; he only hits back. the opposing party has not disengaged, or else he will back off. i used to try to emulate the way he argued with people too, but i didn't notice that he was following these conditions at the time. there are probably more that i haven't noticed. you, also, say that you emulate the way luka's style of engaging with people. but the unwillingness to let people back off when they don't want you hitting them anymore is one of the key discrepancies between your and luka's tactics that cross yours over into the category of emotional abuse, and is the reason why i have observed many people expressing that they are too afraid to engage with you. to be honest, i don't really want to continue arguing with you either anymore. the way you engage pings a little too close to home for me, if you catch my drift. but i don't feel like you don't find this an acceptable course of action. it's also part of why i conducted my argument with you in the other thread using such guarded language. i'd hoped that maybe if i conducted myself calmly and carefully while expressing an objection to your behavior, that perhaps you wouldn't use the engagement tactics i see you using everywhere else. i thought that perhaps we would be able to have an argument that didn't involve either party relying on a relentless stream of personal and/or emotional attacks, but this wasn't the case. and now i feel as if i don't have the option of leaving, out of desire to not be the target of personal attacks, emotional damage, to not have my vulnerabilities targeted. i disengaged quietly and without a word in the other thread, myself, and in lieu of a single response from me in between, you continued to tear me to shreds in the nickscord drama chat. moogle, i just want to know where it ends. can't we just disagree with you and still have boundaries, and not be wrong for exercising them?