suicide baiting

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by Skeletor., Feb 1, 2017.

?

what should be done in cases of suicide baiting?

  1. involuntary temporary moderation queue.

  2. involuntary temporary ban from subforum in question.

  3. involuntary permanent moderation queue.

  4. involuntary permanent ban from subforum in question.

  5. whatever the user who did it voluntarily chooses, maybe nothing.

  6. nothing, period. we're a hands-off forum.

  7. other. (comment below.)

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    so, everyone agrees suicide baiting isn't okay. we've had multiple users suicide bait before. moderation queue and banning are only options if the user baiting people or spamming death threats is willing to voluntarily accept them.

    the forum has the potential of being shut down or getting in legal trouble if a suicide baiting user actually successfully gets someone to kill themselves. more than that, it will be devastating to fellow vulnerable users if someone kills themselves. hell, seeing that kind of thing around is upsetting enough.

    but we're a no-moderation forum. so what's to be done?

    made on a sub because like fuck do i want notifs about this.
     
  2. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    an option you didn't list is mods deleting the posts in question. previously, iirc, suicide baiting comments have been deleted.
     
    • Like x 5
  3. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    how does that fix anything? if anything, automatic deletion of those comments removes accountability for the people making them and sweeps their actions under the rug.
     
  4. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I cast my vote for other because this forum has quite heavy moderation.

    Hard rules of if x then y make for light but restrictive moderation.

    Each unique situation is given a tailored response by a mod who works closely with the people affected. There will probably never be A Rule about what happens when a person does x because the situation will always be unique.

    HOWEVER, there is always a mod response to things, good or bad, and often loose policy is made as mods make mistakes and learn from them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    • Like x 8
  5. I thought your concern was with the harm they could cause to the people seeing them...?
     
  6. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    again, how does "nebulous, possible mod response" fix the "suicide baiting distresses people and may eventually lead to actual physical harm or actual physical death" problem?
     
    • Like x 2
  7. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    all of the users i can remember having suicide baited others did not do it once and then decide never to do it again.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    no. it would be very out of character for seebs to not archive something.
     
    • Like x 3
  9. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    there's also social response, especially in terms of "treating the victim the same way we would respond if they were getting suicide baited or threatened on another platform" -- witnessing, validating their feelings and potential trauma, reminding them to do self care if possible, etc. (while also taking care of ourselves as bystanders, of course). That's the part I really feel now was missing in the BPD anon blow-ups. Official response is a way of saying "this is fucked up and i'm sorry you have to deal with it" but it's not the only way.

    there's also gonna be normal social repercussions in terms of people losing trust in or being unfriendly to someone who displays a pattern of suicide-baiting behavior. That's not punishment or exclusion or running people off the forum, that's just interpersonal relationships working as they do.
     
    • Like x 5
  10. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    yeah, mods can still see deleted comments, I believe
    and the comments may not actually be deleted, just mod-scrubbed, so non-mods can still see where they were

    in either case, it should always be possible to ask a mod to go back and confirm something like that
     
    • Like x 2
  11. Ouija

    Ouija Nani the fuck?

    can confirm. once i asked to be banned from fid, and when i got taken off the self-imposed ban they accidentally made me a mod. it was a hilarious 15 minutes of "I AM BECOME DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS" back and forth between me and jesse in pm
     
    • Like x 12
  12. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    thats fair then. im going to ping @seebs in here since they seem the most involved of the mods. idk what there is to be said in the comments at this point because the poll is meant to speak for itself.
     
  13. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    By making people feel as safe as they can in a non-safe space. We cannot bubble wrap the internet, not even this corner of it, but we can be a community that says, "Suicide baiting is not okay; what do you, the victim, need right now AND what do you, the perpetrator, need to help prevent this sort of action going forward?"
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    • Like x 8
  14. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    'k.

    what if the victim is dead? what if the perpetrator thinks they're in the right completely and openly expresses the intention of doing it again? these are extreme cases, but i don't think they're unreasonable to consider. if something like this happens, it'll be too late to sit around theorizing about what the good and just option is.
     
    • Like x 4
  15. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I know this probably feels urgent to some people, but this is not the first rodeo this forum has been through.

    Hypotheticals are not helpful for a forum that runs on a responsive model, not a policy model.
     
    • Like x 4
  16. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    I think that's a fair question.
    I guess at some point we have to say "okay that's above our pay grade as a support forum" and turn it over to the relevant authorities (if possible or safe, cf. fascism), either in terms of wellness checks/involuntary hospitalization for the suicidal person or in terms of legal repercussions for the person suicide baiting or making death threats.
    There are bad-but-not-to-that-level cases to navigate, of course.
     
    • Like x 7
  17. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    i do think it's easier for us to sit back and pontificate on the subject given that we're not the users that were, you know, told to kill themselves.

    eta, sent too early: how do we help people feel safe AFTER that kind of thing if there's nothing stopping them from being attacked again?
     
    • Like x 3
  18. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    What do you mean by nothing stopping them though? Like, mostly what's done is that people WANT to be better so we work with them. You have this completely hypothetical person dead set on suicide baiting for the lols built up in your mind and... That's not an issue we have. Even if we did have it, what would you purpose? What would stopping people from just registering new accounts even look like?

    We are not safe because of rules and authorities, we are safe because we support each other, take care of each other, and hold each other accountable socially.
     
    • Like x 2
  19. Skeletor.

    Skeletor. Member

    nono. bad phrasing on my end. misunderstanding on yours.

    people that have been harassed dont feel safe. i'm saying this as a fact for the purpose of my point. how can we as the supportive community help them, if there's a precedent of users that do this harassy thing doing it more than one time. it feels empty to be like "sorry this happened but past experience says buckle down for two or three more passes before everything evens out ell oh ell"

    i jsut feel like theres more help to be done and no one wants to do it because that would be Moderating Too Much or w/ever
     
    • Like x 7
  20. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    I think you'd have to ask the users in question. One thing I've seen here is that what's helpful for one person is hurtful to another
     
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