suicide baiting

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by Skeletor., Feb 1, 2017.

?

what should be done in cases of suicide baiting?

  1. involuntary temporary moderation queue.

  2. involuntary temporary ban from subforum in question.

  3. involuntary permanent moderation queue.

  4. involuntary permanent ban from subforum in question.

  5. whatever the user who did it voluntarily chooses, maybe nothing.

  6. nothing, period. we're a hands-off forum.

  7. other. (comment below.)

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. ASPD Anon

    ASPD Anon Vagitarian

    You keep saying "public mass shaming" and "I don't want my partner to jump in front of a train" when I say things like "I don't want to be suicide baited" and name my attacker. I don't understand why you are doing this, except to derail.
     
    • Like x 4
  2. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

    I mentioned the shaming because it was already being discussed. I mentioned the thing that happened with BPDanon to explain why I was being a little overreactive in the sense of "I don't want this to become a hate thread"....which, fascinatingly, is something I've now stated twice.
     
    • Like x 4
  3. boop

    boop beepbeep

    i suspect its because she wants to avoid a repeat of what happened with bpdanon
     
    • Like x 3
  4. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    All three of those things are bad things that should not happen, and this is not a one on one convo between you two. Multiple goals can be addressed.
     
    • Like x 2
  5. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    social consequences exist without massive public shaming. and the public denouncing of actions are not the same as shaming.

    me saying "suicide baiting is fucked up and is absolutley not acceptable behavior" is not the same as public shaming. but i realize things have the tendency to quickly snowball into shaming (both from experience here and in other social spaces) and too much feedback at once can also become too overwhelming to be constructive.
     
    • Like x 9
  6. ASPD Anon

    ASPD Anon Vagitarian

    When you said it the first time, I pointed out that this thread discusses forum policy. You know, like an ignore feature that works better. I don't see how that is punitive or evil.

    You keep bringing this up as if I don't know what happened. I do. I don't think it's relevant. The situation here is not nearly as venomous. BPDA's drama went on for weeks. It's been two days, and I am trying to have a conversation about forum policy so that I do not get told to kill myself anymore. It seems to me that you think Palin's right to unhurt feelings and zero social repercussions for engaging in telling me and others to die trumps my right to not be told to die anymore. Am I incorrect?
     
    • Like x 10
  7. Mercury

    Mercury 17 Quicksilver Scribe Tramples The Unrepentant

    I thought shaming wasn't even being discussed as a method until Seebs brought it up in conjunction with a totally different event. Why is it suddenly a big focus?
     
    • Like x 9
  8. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    That's not quite on, there were talks of public support in the form of venting after an incident, which quickly becomes condemning and shaming in my experience.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. Mercury

    Mercury 17 Quicksilver Scribe Tramples The Unrepentant

    Hm. I must have read that post a lot differently, since I thought it was talking about the victim being allowed to vent (presumably in a vent thread or similar, not a big public free-for-all) without being nagged about tone or content.
     
    • Like x 7
  10. ASPD Anon

    ASPD Anon Vagitarian

    How is that? When you say "public support," I think that means saying something to the effect of, "What happened to you was wrong. How can I help?" How is this shaming?
     
    • Like x 8
  11. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    It's not! I think that is an example of a great thing to say.
     
    • Like x 6
  12. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya your purple friend

    forum policy appears to be being extended to include proper community response. shaming is a potential community response
     
    • Like x 3
  13. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    "Support" can also include things like "yeah that person is horrible I don't understand why the staff won't Do Something". And that quickly gets into "more focused on attacking than on being supportive".

    So, here's the thing: One of the reasons I dislike trying to make blanket rules is that every blanket rule fails badly on real cases.

    So, with the specific case in question: As of this writing, Alix has asked to be banned. I did that. Alix may later want to come back, which I would be in favor of... But I think I would probably disable some account features, and strongly encourage moderation queue, because Alix has recurring problems with meltdowns and Try To Be As Horrible As Possible So People Will Stop Fighting. And that's harmful enough to make me willing to Do Something. It's just that I want to Do Something which helps Alix participate productively, rather than something which dismisses Alix entirely as no longer a people who deserves compassion.

    I don't actually track who uses what subaccounts, but I would be pretty inclined to bet that someone who goes by "ASPD Anon" may have, on occasion, done things that hurt people... You may from this infer that I am inclined to try to find ways to work with people and help them integrate rather than ways to drive them off because they're hurtful.
     
    • Like x 9
  14. There seems to be a question of whether people want punitive or preventative measures taken. By punitive I mean an action which will cause the offender to feel bad in an attempt to show them/others that their actions were not condoned, and should not be repeated. I think ASPD Anon is asking for preventative measures, but some other users seem to be asking for punitive actions and at least one other (@mahina) has openly stated that they are asking for "harsher punishment."
     
    • Like x 2
  15. ASPD Anon

    ASPD Anon Vagitarian

    Okay, I think I would be happy with this sort of arrangement.

    upload_2017-2-1_11-45-59.png
     
    • Like x 10
  16. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya your purple friend

    it sets my paranoia off really badly, to the point where i will refuse to leave at all and start lashing out at any and all perceived threats. which really does create a vicious cycle.
     
    • Like x 4
  17. Mercury

    Mercury 17 Quicksilver Scribe Tramples The Unrepentant

    What the hell, Seebs? That was uncalled for in the extreme.

    Like, if that was an attempt at funny, this was a really poor time to try.
     
    • Like x 21
  18. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

    actually, no, I offered my interpretation of what you'd said, you accused me of saying that I said you wanted Alix to jump in front of a train, I said I was just explaining why I was being a little overzealous in this discussion, and you didn't reply after that.

    and actually, you are incorrect! I'm sorry for being a little concerned about something that's happened before happening again and being overreactive in trying to prevent it, but that's not linked to what I think of Alix's actions. I think Alix was very much in the wrong and I think they shouldn't do it again. I don't think Alix's right to not having hurt feelings trumps someone else's right to not be told to die, but I also think that there are certain things that I have seen happen before and I'm a little paranoid about them happening again, so yeah, I was kind of overreactive in trying to prevent those. that doesn't mean I don't agree with certain measures being taken to prevent this happening again! such as moderation on Alix's account, banning them from certain features, having them do mutual ignores with people, having them banned from certain subforums if they're okay with it, and similar things. also, Seebs brought the public shaming issue up first. I was adding on to what she had said.

    and also--shockingly--the posts I've made about not doing things like public shaming or punishment for the sake of punishment have not been made with you in mind! there are users I've noticed asking for "harsher punishments" or seeming to want punishment for the sake of punishment. that's who I'm addressing. not you. actually, on the whole, I think you've been reasonable over most of this. so....yeah.

    (eta to clarify last paragraph: I think you've been reasonable with what you're asking. therefore, I have no reason to be concerned about you encouraging public shaming or punishment for the sake of punishment. my posts about that were entirely in regards to other people who are involved in this discussion.)

    (further eta: regarding that first thing, you literally did not respond to my explanation of why I was bringing the thing up at all, anywhere, and I posted it twice--once here, and once in my vent thread, which you also spoke in, despite the fact that the post in my vent thread had nothing to do with you anyway. except perhaps tangentially. like, immediately prior to me explaining that, you said in my vent thread that a forum about how to handle suicide baiting isn't a hate thread, I explained what I meant by my initial post, and you told me I was decrying you as totally wanting Alix to die. which is....not the case at all. someone else pointed out that I was maybe just venting my fear that Alix would do what Beeps did, and yeah, that's kind of what I was doing. I didn't even know you would BE in my vent thread. I assumed you would've left it.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    • Like x 2
  19. ASPD Anon

    ASPD Anon Vagitarian

    I thought they were referring to the December fight I had on @эзэн хаан...?

    E: I appreciate the concern on my behalf, but I am not particularly sensitive to being told I am antisocial and occasionally behave antisocially. Like I said yesterday, that's why it's called "disorder" instead of "stat buff."
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    • Like x 12
  20. AbsenteeLandlady123

    AbsenteeLandlady123 Chronically screaming

    Um, so I can see various ways this could turn hostile from the last few posts. Would it be out of line to suggest everybody go get a drink of water real quick before continuing?
     
    • Like x 6
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