Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by seebs, Mar 8, 2017.
-excitedly clapping in anticipating/approval/something/CLAPS-
That does complicate the specific issue Seebs was trying to science about, which is "is it my communication style or do people get mad because it's me saying it," though.
If Seebs writes using the account, won't people be able to read and respond without the baggage of it being Seebs saying it? It's just attacking the issue from the opposite direction, removing the name from the content instead of the content from the name.
I mean, if we really wanted to be scientifically rigorous, the thing to do would be to get four population samples and show them all a screenshot of a thread with a response at the end, and two groups see a post written by Seebs and two see a post written by someone else, and half of each have it posted from Seebs' account and the other half see it posted from another account. But I'm not sure we have a big enough forum population to get a statistically significant data set. :::PPP
Agreed that it's not good science. But it's good enough that between that and the specific addition of a concrete explanation for a lot of the other communications mishaps, I'm running with that conclusion until I see better data to the contrary.
Well, there are two questions:
1: Can people detect seebs? False positive rate has been played with, but we should be looking at false negative rate as well.
2: For the people who dislike seebs speaking seebs words using the seebs account, what is it that they dislike? Other people speaking other words on the seebs account has apparently not met with distinguishable results from seebs speaking seebs words using the seebs account, but we'd have to bend what we're willing to put on the seebs account pretty far to really get good data, and that's dangerous. In contrast, we could see if the seebs account is the important variable by removing it from the situation.
While the best case scenario is that people like seebs using seebs words on the seebs account, that doesn't seem to be the case. Ultimately I think we'd be okay if we could have seebs using other people words from the seebs account, but that's because I'm convinced that it's seebs words that are the problem; some people might think otherwise.
Skipping a bunch of steps in the experiment, I can envision the implementation of a generic "Mod" or "Announcement" account for doing announcement things that isn't tied to a specific mod. I can also envision this going horribly, because I've seen at least three of many distinct failure modes for this actually occur on tumblr, but it's an idea that at least won't get the poor smod doing the announcements burned at the stake.
isnt a few hundred or so enough as long as we pick em randomly
I'm random. Pick me.
It's also complicated by the fact that opinions of both "Seebs account" and "Seebs words" are very different within different forum subpopulations. People who were involved in forum drama from various sides, people who were uninvolved, and people who were uninvolved until the shutdown and then were all pizzafire.gif are likely to all have different statistical distributions of Seebs Opinions. :::PPP
But then there's the confounding variable of everyone knowing we're doing a seebs voice experiment, and being primed to respond to Maybe Seebs! We have to make the experiment include more people somehow. And we will have a smaller, self-selecting group of users who will be willing to participate in experiment. Science is hard.
I dunno, if nobody could tell those posts weren't you I really don't think they give much data.
Edit: First of all, this assumes nobody did twig. Secondly, I have completely lost my train of thought on why that is true? I'll clarify later, maybe tomorrow.
On that topic, if Seebs and Jesse like to be able to interact on the forum as people first and as admins only when they must, it really might be a good idea to have more separation for when they put on their admin hats.
I've seen forums where mods would use a different text color when speaking in mod voice, but otherwise were just expected to be treated like any other user. That exact solution might be a bad fit for kintsugi, given the more concentrated population of people-with-sensory-issues here, but maybe popping up a couple of subaccount like SeebsAdmin and JackAdmin or something, which are used only for official proclamation type stuff, and using the main accounts to just behave like regular users... might be helpful?
Follow up thought: Official sticky threads might want to be replaced with new versions from the admin subs.
Further follow up thought: the admin subaccounts should definitely be on moderation so that no official proclamations get made without vetting. Somebody should be able to say "hey, maybe this should be posted under your main, and maybe in the holler closet, and then you can write what you really want attached to your admin voice." I don't want to harp on the Angry Bear Rant too much, but I think it's the sort of thing we'd want to avoid repeating.
Final further follow up thought: maybe once people get used to separating seebs the peer from seebs the admin, regular seebs might not need post moderation?
I'm thinking about it, but honestly, it probably makes more sense anyway because even with the theoretical separation, no one's going to think I'm not The Admin, and a lot of people think I'm pretty evil, so.
My friend Alexis can read a book, hum a song, listen to police radio with a high degree of accuracy and eavesdrop on coworker conversations at the same time. I mean, she's a dramatic outlier and possibly some kind of miracle, but it does happen!
I can kiiiiiinda read and listen at the same time, but my auditory processing is shit regardless of what I'm doing. :P
People speaking messes up anything I do - but I have a really hard time processing speech and my brain devotes way too many resources to trying to do it. I end up not understanding what is being said AND screwing up what I am actually trying to accomplish.
Is why speaking in my computer room is not allowed.
I can read and listen to multiple sources of audio input at once pretty easily. I usually have music on even when talking to a friend of mine and I am typically reading while talking with them.
What I can't do is type/write and talk or listen to someone talk at once. It gets the language centers of my brain all confused and I just kind of fizzle out. Which ends up being intensely frustrating and I've snapped at people for on occasion and told them to shut the fuck up. I can kind of manage typing or writing while someone talks but it involves entirely tuning them out. I am told that this is Very Rude.
I find it easier to process mouthnoises if i have familiar music playing in one ear. Dunno why.
Okay so someone pointed out that the "not all seebs posts are seebs" thing is upsetting, and on reflection, yes, that is pretty obvious. I didn't think about it, obviously, because I was busy thinking about a different social thing.
So, (1) Sorry, didn't think about that, won't happen again. (2) The specific posts were the "everyone take a break" post (KathyGaele) and the "defining dehumanization" post (Beldaran). Everything else was me. No one else had access to the account, I just cut and pasted text other people handed me.
Hearing that is a reassurance to me. I was too overwhelmed by other things to think it through yesterday, but if I had arrived at the conclusion that other(s) were using your account, I would've been annoyed on behalf of the modly folks.
see i don't Know seebs personally and like every other platform on the internet if someone posts something under their own account name acting like its them, the Words They Say, *Become* them because i'm still building my perception of what seebs thinks and says and how seebs acts?
it never really crossed my mind that somebody else could be posting as seebs because. why? for what purpose? i've been taking everything seebs says at* face value because... that's what i would expect from these long discussions? for people to say what they mean? so that they may contribute to the conversation in a relatively straightforward matter? it's already complicated enough
so like... i was never under the impression that i was supposed to be watching out for seebs impersonation. i still am developing my perception of seebs based on what she says. ??????
it feels like unnecessarily complications honestly, unless the impersonation is relevant to the convo in a way i missed among the um. hundreds of cumalitive pages. i haven't been keeping up with this thread consistently either so my statements here could be entirely irrelevant and outdated by the time it posts (or never relevant in the first place because i'm misreading things)
tldr now im going to be worried that other forumgoers aren't actually posting as themselves?????? what is The Self anyway. a construct. im a bird typing without proper fingers and none of yall could tell. for shame
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