"Vent Threads" and the Community

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by Beldaran, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    Do vent threads go by Ray Rules now where anything is okay as long as it's Just Venting?

    As a community we seem to have at least some basic standards of not being assholes to each other, except apparently when it comes to so called "vent threads" that are just as public as the rest of the forum.

    I personally do not think that separate rules should apply; being cruel to people anywhere is just as unacceptable as anywhere else in my opinion.

    What are other people's thoughts about this? How much of a "right" does someone have to "venting" when that venting entails being cruel to or hurting others publicly?
     
    • Like x 3
  2. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    I think this is inappropriate and passive-aggressive with regards to @OnnaStik, I don't buy that public cruelty is what is going on, and I don't think your comment of "Ray Rules" is at all helpful or accurate.
     
    • Like x 12
  3. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    Agreed with @Wiwaxia , typing longer post.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I think they are accurate, and I've seen this problem more than once. That one user happens to be a multi-offender isn't even the biggest problem, it's how others seem to think that this behavior is fine.

    And maybe the majority of people do think it's fine. That's just not a community that I want to be a part of and not what I thought this community was about. *shrug*
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 2
  5. strictly quadrilateral

    strictly quadrilateral alive, alive, alive!

    i think onna, and anyone else, is entitled to vent their frustration. i'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure no one was mentioned by name in the vent thread.
     
    • Like x 4
  6. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I really do not like the heavy implication that others are obligated to play along with the "You Can't See Me" game when it comes to people talking about others publicly just because "vent" is in the title of a thread.
     
    • Like x 2
  7. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I'm kind of fine with it so long as it's being "quarantined", so to speak. Which is to say it stays well in that thread and others are not forcibly drug into the thread. Though I'm going off the standard of things I've seen with the threads which haven't really struck me as that bad? Though this is also speaking as someone who has accused the entire forum of plotting against me in my own vent thread during a melt down. Which I feel was kind of helpful in a way. No one I normally talk through this shit was around at the time and I couldn't manage to meditate through it. So at least it was out in that thread instead of me bursting into the tumblr thread and telling random kintsujin that I fucking hate them for ignoring me.
     
    • Like x 10
  8. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    I have times of extreme anger and frustration that I know will pass, usually as soon as I get it out and calm down. I go to a quiet space, tagged and sequestered as much as can be , to do so. I'd very much like to think that me screaming in a corner of space would be just that. There's an argument place to do the arguing in if someone has an actual argument that they want to stand behind and have the spoons to use to sort things out, there's a freezer thread in two different flavors for more public things as well. But if someone is in a space where they're going to scream and rage till it passes, I'd like to imagine that someone taking the time to click the thing and read it means it's on them. All that pops up on the front screen is an alert that they posted in the tag. It's on a specific thread, on a specific forum, on the off chance that if someone reads it and realizes they can ask questions or maybe even offer help to me to make things better. In my experience I've gotten help during explosions and breakdowns, that I wouldn't get if I'd bottled it up and kept everything 100% private.

    It also helps me collect things for later mentally. It lets me dissect things. If I'm exploding, I'm exploding in there so I'm not exploding pre-emptively on others. If someone goes out of their way to interact in that space, where I am handling TNT, they may be exploded on. Or in my case, paranoia rage exploded on. I'd like to think that quarantining myself meant something.
     
    • Like x 12
  9. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    Okay, so. A few things.

    - While vent threads are publicly visible, there's a difference between passive-aggression and venting. By that I mean... A big problem with Ray's "venting" is that it's actually intended as communication. The person being talked about is supposed to see it, be emotionally manipulated, and change their behavior.

    It doesn't look to me like that's what was happening in OnnaStik's vent thread; I don't read these threads a lot, so I can't speak to other occurrences.

    It looked like OnnaStik was frustrated and needed to blow off steam, was appropriately doing so in a clearly labelled area away from the main discussion, and needed to do so in a semi-public space for the purpose of witnessing. That seems like reasonable community behavior to me.

    Unlike Ray, I don't think their remarks were directed at cA and other members of that argument. This wasn't a "be emotionally manipulated and change behavior" situation.

    - Also, while OnnaStik definitely became angry and started shouting, I felt that that was in response to significant provocation, when they had clearly signaled that they wanted to nope out of the discussion, they were in an emotional state, and their comments were being treated as passive-aggression when not intended as such.

    I don't believe that they said anything cruel or which constituted an attack, before themself being attacked. That's a different situation than you're representing; obviously not ideal, but this was a fight, not a stab in the dark, for lack of a better metaphor.
     
    • Like x 13
  10. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I think there is a difference between 100% private and posted to a public forum. There are middle grounds. People are, of course, free to post whatever they want, but, like I said, I don't think that anyone should be obligated to pretend they don't see shit being flung in their direction, even if it's coming from the tantrum corner.
     
    • Like x 3
  11. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    Ah, and also a significant point - when Ray is being cruel, he voices highly inappropriate comments which are implicit threats to others' physical or emotional wellbeing. E.g., the meat grinder and the glass rod comments.

    Onna became angry, and definitely shouted and swore, but they definitely did not threaten or attack anyone. That's very different behavior.
     
    • Like x 4
  12. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    Okay, actually. Not trying to get the last word in, but this is clearly still an emotional situation, and I think everyone needs some cooldown time. I'm going to report this and request that this discussion be locked for a few hours; I don't think arguing about this is going to do anything useful right now.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    May I ask then why it would be acceptable to argue in that person's tantrum corner, and not the argument island forum perhaps? A room full of TNT and high emotion doesn't seem the best place for a calm exchange and understanding to be reached. It's like being cornered and held down in my mind..
     
    • Like x 10
  14. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    First of all, the association of Ray and "just venting" is publicly posting graphic mutilation and rape fantasies and leading sustained harassment campaigns. Are you accusing people here of those things or not?
    Secondly, where exactly is the public cruelty or harm? @OnnaStik made a couple posts that they felt were unfair to say in the argument they derived from but that they wanted to say, with the understanding that they were posting them in a space that they were specifically not advocating them as positions.
    @chaoticArbiter responded to those posts in the argument, OnnaStik said that the posts were specifically not intended to be responded to.
    OnnaStik did not at any point invoke "you can't see me rules" merely stated that they were saying things that they felt but didn't want to actually argue or advocate. They got fairly heated in telling cA to step off, but no worse than has happened in fights elsewhere on the site, in response to someone not disengaging when asked, and generally in the realm of "rude" not "cruel."

    edit. retracted thing that was unlikely to be productive
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 11
  15. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    I think it's reasonable to assume something you say in a vent thread won't be brought to a different thread and to be mad if that happens. There's a difference between reading and responding to posts on someone's blog while expecting them to not do the same with yours (aka "Ray Rules"), and a space explicitly set aside and marked for venting by the community. There's an understanding that stuff said in a vent thread is raw and emotional and possibly not something the person genuinely means or thinks.

    Personally, if I see something that angers me, I'll often vent to a friend in private and basically give them a raw, unfiltered version of an argument I want to make. Then if/when I make the argument, its easier to make words and filter out the unfair and hurtful bits. But not everyone will have a willing friend available at the time or may not feel able to directly go to one person. So vent threads are incredibly useful for that!

    That doesn't mean I think someone can't say "hey I saw what you said about me in your vent thread and it hurt" but A: that's not what was happening and B: it would probably be better to do it when they're not actively venting.
     
    • Like x 6
  16. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    While I think that the way Onna interacted with cA was cruel, my main issue is with how people around the situation have responded. I do not think that having people dogpile others over addressing stuff said about them publicly is appropriate.

    If people don't want the things they say to be responded to, they should probably not say them where others will see.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. OnnaStik

    OnnaStik Relatively nice for a bloodthirsty mercenary

    Remaining calm long enough to post this one thing, using likes to communicate agreement otherwise.

    I am trying to be charitable, Beldaran, and assume that you didn't know I had you on ignore and would thus not be able to see this Totally Not Completely About Me thread unless someone brought it to my attention, because this is already far more passive-aggressive than I was being, but otherwise it would be on a whole other level.


    (edited for clearer word order)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 3
  18. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    I'm not entirely sure what you hope to achieve with this?

    Are we talking about tagging people specifically in vent threads and telling them not to respond, quoting people and venting while expecting them not to respond, making references to other forums members in the abstract while expecting them not to respond, or venting as a whole and expecting people not to respond? These are four distinct things, and I think that that's sort of significant?

    Also given the polarizing nature of Ray and the CDCF contents I'm not sure that's really a useful comparison metric to have. "Literally Hitler" is about as coherent, which is to say absolutely useless when discussing a behavior we are trying to address.
     
    • Like x 8
  19. Mendacity

    Mendacity I’m meaner than my demons

    This seems like the best course of action??? Like if something in a Vent Thread needs to be brought up either the vent thread or (more positively) the argument island forum.

    Speaking of. This thread should probably be there, especially with how aggressive the opening post sounds and how heated you all are.
     
    • Like x 7
  20. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    So if during a meltdown I say that I think you are personally attempting to lead to my death in my vent thread I should expect that to be quoted elsewhere?
     
    • Like x 2
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