"Vent Threads" and the Community

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by Beldaran, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    There is also a difference between "pretend they don't see shit" and "respond in the vent thread."

    Posting a request to talk in the argument island when they can might be okay.
    Posting a reactionary vent thread might be okay, if seriously passive aggressive. Or aggressive aggressive.
    Posting in the vent thread, such that they cannot get away while still talking in an accessible space with people who want to help, is not okay.
     
    • Like x 8
  2. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I don't really see a coherent comparison between Ray and "Literally Hitler" because, really? He's an internet wanker who does really strange and harmful things like pretend that his "venting" can only be seen by people who agree with him and then gets upset when people respond to it.

    If people are building him up to actual Hitler in their minds that's their issue.
     
  3. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    The particular instance @Beldaran is referring to is here, and is of type 3/4: https://kintsugi.seebs.net/threads/not-okay-yet.3222/page-6#post-325022

    It was venting about a philosophical argument in the abstract, not demonizing any particular people. cA responded to those vents in the main stargender thread, and Onna then vented about cA's actions in Onna's vent thread.

    I agree that this looks like a good candidate for Argument Island.
     
    • Like x 4
  4. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya your purple friend

    ...granted, i think people have a right to respond whenever they find that someone is talking about them behind there backs, but i have no idea what would be the most acceptable place to do that, since there are arguments for and against all the places someone could respond

    whatever the case, tumblr peekaboo is bullshit and i refuse to play it if it gets brought here
     
    • Like x 6
  5. strictly quadrilateral

    strictly quadrilateral alive, alive, alive!

    cA was just as much at fault, and you don't seem to be understanding that. i know that everyone involved was upset and perhaps not thinking clearly, but it's not fair to put all the blame on one person.
     
    • Like x 7
  6. Aqua Vitae

    Aqua Vitae put some honey and sea water by your bed.

    I dislike the direct quoting from vent threads. I feel like Onna deserves more courtesy than that.
     
    • Like x 10
  7. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    He does that. But his "venting" constitutes actual implicit threats to the physical wellbeing of others, e.g., "oh I want to shove their hand in a meat grinder". It's one thing to vent frustration about the points of an argument, and it's another to threaten people's physical welfare while maintaining a thin veneer of plausible deniability.

    That's an entirely different level of behavior, and I'm not comfortable with your comparison of his behavior and Onna's.
     
    • Like x 10
  8. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    Like I said, my issue is less with any particular user and more with the fact that multiple people seem to be holding up Peek-A-Boo as a community standard and censuring those who don't play along.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 1
  9. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    I'd go one more and say that posting once in the vent thread to respond to stuff about you is okay if maybe not optimal.
    after cA had responded to OnnaStik criticizing them for drawing stuff from their vent thread into the argument, characterizing OnnaStik saying "i don't want to talk more about this with you, please leave" as talking about cA behind their back is absurd.
     
    • Like x 8
  10. strictly quadrilateral

    strictly quadrilateral alive, alive, alive!

    i don't understand what that is in this context
     
  11. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    I'm seeing a difference of standards. The idea some of us are using is, vent threads are an accessible but separated space for volatile emotions to be expressed without derailing other threads. You're expressing concern that having the threads public, at all, fosters a toxic environment where we tolerate... things that should be directly challenged? While I see the transparency of having vent thread where we can see them to be notably less toxic than alternatives like using private messages to discuss the same things with people... where others can't see.
     
    • Like x 7
  12. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    Also relevant, I believe OnnaStik had explicitly expressed that they were noping out of this argument between their initial vent posts and cA's quoting of their posts in the thread.
     
    • Like x 3
  13. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    i agree. i think that this should have first been taken to argument island, and after that, taken here. i think emotions and hashing out stuff between the people involved -- onna and cA, plus possibly other people in the stargender thread -- needs to happen before forum wide debates on the purpose and function of vent threads.

    this discussion feels very much like jumping the gun. i think it's a discussion that should happen, but i really don't think any meaningful discussion about vent threads as a whole can happen right now because this was prompted by a very specific instance. trying to say that this is about a general issue and not specifically about what happened between cA and onna feels disingenuous, considering the context.
     
    • Like x 15
  14. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I think that when it comes to talking about people, even venting about people, it ought to be done where the target can't see unless the target is intended to see. It's not like PM's and skype chats and any number of other things don't exist.

    I mean, sure, if someone doesn't care if the target of their ire sees, that's fine, but they should expect to see reactions to it.
     
    • Like x 2
  15. Aqua Vitae

    Aqua Vitae put some honey and sea water by your bed.

    • Like x 1
  16. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    I agree with this, and also think that there's a significant difference between "venting in a publicly accessible space" and passive-aggression.

    Specifically, when a post is intended to be read by the person one is venting about, and to provoke a change in behavior, while providing plausible deniability and denying them the ability to argue... I would say that's passive-aggression, and inappropriate.

    I think that "you should only express heated or unfair feelings in completely private spaces" is an unreasonable rule, and contrary to the purpose of the forum.

    It's manipulation that's problematic, not feelings.
     
    • Like x 10
  17. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    The issue of polarization is the one I'm concerned with. Ray might be ineffectual, but he has had an extremely open, well expressed, and very well documented history of abuse towards multiple members of the community, for whom the comparison might be immediate enough and negative enough that it is the equivalent of "Literally Hitler" in terms of usefulness.
     
    • Like x 5
  18. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    Only if the people involved even want that in the first place

    yes this. I think our vent forum is a better system than LJ's f-lock system and certainly better than Tumblr Peekaboo. I consider venting in a private chat more ideal, but that requires another person to be emotionally available at that moment which doesn't always happen
     
    • Like x 10
  19. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    I believe it's agreed as a community that it's okay to feel and express feelings, even ugly ones. It's agreed that it's okay to nope out of a discussion when needed, and expect that others will respect that need. It's agreed that the creator of a forum thread has some right to stop derails of their chosen topic, particularly in highly personal threads like Brainbent and ITA, as opposed to general-subject threads.

    I don't see anything occurring in Brainbent that's inconsistent with community guidelines, here.
     
    • Like x 7
  20. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I think that emotional availability is a point, though that still doesn't mean that it's okay for people to dogpile-style enforce Tumblr Peek-A-Boo rules.

    Just because something that someone said was said in a vent thread doesn't mean it's not hurtful, and people should be allowed to respond to stuff said about them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 4
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