"Vent Threads" and the Community

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by Beldaran, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    To Beldaran saying that he is being dogpiled. Which I don't think is entirely unfair in this case because he asked for the thoughts of other users. Users are giving their thoughts.
     
  2. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I... still don't understand what this is referring to?

    I don't think I've ever been dogpiled on this forum ever.
     
  3. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Oh!

    I think that's a misunderstanding.

    Beldaran isn't complaining about being dogpiled in this thread. Beldaran started this thread, in part, to complain about other people being dogpiled when there are conflicts in vent threads. Which is a thing which has happened on a number of occasions. If vent thread interactions lead to conflict, it's quite common for someone to get dogpiled because they failed to follow some hypothetical social rule, but the social rules in question have never been stated or agreed on. So basically, if you have interactions and a vent thread is somewhere near them, it's quite possible that several people will yell at you for Doing That Wrong, but there's no real way to predict exactly what they'll be mad about. And that's unhelpful.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. OnnaStik

    OnnaStik Relatively nice for a bloodthirsty mercenary

    I think (edit: she) was trying to suggest that cA was dogpiled? Which I don't see either, just some people agreeing that trying to police the tone of a vent thread is Uncool.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 2
  5. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Ah. Ok then. Thanks for clearing that up, seebs and Beldaran. I had presumed the dogpiling comments were referring to the current thread.
     
  6. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Beldaran is, so far as I know, a "she". And just looking at the thread, I would definitely describe that as dogpiling. Several people, none of them previously involved, suddenly jumping in to say "you did this wrong and shouldn't have done that". That's dogpiling. And since it's dogpiling for failure to follow a social rule, when we clearly have not ever had anything close to a community consensus on what the correct behavior would be, that's pretty damaging.

    EDIT: Clarification, there's only two posts in the stuff I saw that are clearly (1) stating that cA was wrong and (2) from different unrelated users, but there were also reports made, and there may have been other communications I didn't see, but the net impact is "more than one additional person who hadn't been involved before showing up only to say a given user is in the wrong", which strikes me as pretty much exactly what dogpiling is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 1
  7. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    another option could be to take post-disagreement venting about others on the forum to the walk in freezer/the holler closet freezer instead of posting in a personal vent thread. because the thing is if i'm arguing with someone and when i refresh to see new posts, their vent thread is at the top... i'm going to assume they are are venting about me and i would probably check the thread.

    but if i see the general, communal vent thread at the top, it doesn't have the same feeling of someone is talking about me, because it's not a personal thread it's a shared one. anyone could be posting there, so, eh. if i see someone i just disagreed with's vent thread pop up right after or during an argument i would feel either compelled to check or intensely anxious or both.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. bbbbbbbb

    bbbbbbbb Member

    @seebs .. Oh, huh, I'd only ever thought of dogpiling as a problem due to it overwhelming and alarming the person in question, so I wouldn't have considered reports as contributing to it since the person wouldn't see them..?
     
    • Like x 2
  9. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    @raybot I don't think it even needs to be about intense anxiety or anything like that. Even if I'm perfectly calm, I'm still going to take an interest in things about me, and possibly want to respond. I do not think that disallowing people from responding to things about them is at all reasonable.

    Using proper avenues of response seems like a good idea, which is not something we've had protocols for prior to this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 2
  10. OnnaStik

    OnnaStik Relatively nice for a bloodthirsty mercenary

    We're having a difference of terminology, then, because to me "dogpile" suggests a significant number of people. Certainly more than two. Also what bbbbbbbb said re: reports.

    (Including "reports" under dogpiling concerns me. Sometimes unrelated parties are the only way you're going to get those because the involved ones are in too deep to think of it.)
     
    • Like x 3
  11. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    To some extent, but since reports are usually intended to result in Mod Actions, if a bunch of your posts get reported, that is likely to end up having the effect of contributing to a sense of being dogpiled and outnumbered, if the mods actually take the action.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I think it depends a lot on circumstances, but any time someone previously completely absent from a discussion jumps in, that suggests to me a thing that is likely to feel like dogpiling.

    As a secondary issue, if for some reason I felt it necessary or advisable to talk with someone in a personal vent thread, it would still feel pretty weird to then go argue with or engage with other people in that person's vent thread, because how does that even work. And that amplifies the "overwhelmed and cannot respond to this" feeling.
     
    • Like x 3
  13. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    You know, though, Onna's right, the reports really shouldn't be factoring in. I think they contributed to my perception of what I was seeing, but that doesn't entirely apply to the question of what was visible to cA, which is what's at issue. So, feel free to disregard that. And we could argue that this is at most a pretty small dogpiling (unless people were contacting cA in other places I can't see), but we've had issues like this on other occasions, and the perception that a bunch of people are jumping on you for saying a thing is a recurring theme in these discussions, so.
     
    • Like x 7
  14. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    Ah lord what the hell is happening, I completely missed this while I was watching Mr. Robot and typing an essay.

    Let me read, I hope I haven't missed anything pertinent to the stargender discussion.
     
  15. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Huh, that's interesting. Because I'd tend to think the other way, because a personal vent thread is just personal, but the shared ones are crowded and have lots of people. But... That's a point too? Huh. Interesting thoughts.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. Lib

    Lib Well-Known Member

    I am one of those people! I will almost always Read The Thing anyway, because it is extremely rare for anything to even come close to my worst-case catastrophisation scenarios, and because I can't do anything about anxiety over not-knowing-a-thing, whereas even if someone is mad at me and thinks I'm a repellant disgusting person (not that I think anyone does, just giving a common paranoia of mine), I can work out things to do about that.

    I like this as a solution. I felt at first like the overall tone was 'if you respond to someone complaining about you behind your back in a place where you can see, then you are in the wrong', and I don't think that would have been fair, but I think this is a good statement of solutions.

    This was the kind of thing that worried me - I didn't even know there were special social rules for vent threads until I was talking about this with @Aondeug, and as someone who doesn't pick up unstated social rules easily, and for probably fairly obvious reasons is now incredibly anxious about that, that made me worried. I like the idea of having a discussion about such things so that then I know in advance what things are likely to make people get upset at me for breaking a social rule.
     
    • Like x 5
  17. OnnaStik

    OnnaStik Relatively nice for a bloodthirsty mercenary

    ...I'm curious to what extent people are arguing with a specter, actually. Show of hands all who do actually think that responding in any way at all to something in a vent thread that is, or you think is, about you, is in itself- without all the extras like moving it elsewhere and trying to police the thread and all that- not okay?
     
    • Like x 5
  18. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    i agree. i also take interest in things i think are about me, regardless of mood.

    also because it was a vent thread, there was a certain amount of witnessing and stuff going on. in the context of a vent thread would that witnessing/comforting be dogpiling? it is clearly in support of one person over the other, but doesn't necessarily mean that the people witnessing or offering comfort are saying the other person was in the wrong. i think witnessing and offering comfort are things that definitely have a place in a vent thread but if there was conflict in the thread, or if the venter was upset because of a conflict... would that count as dogpiling?

    i think that maybe yes, but also i don't think it's a good idea to say that witnessing or comforting someone shouldn't happen.
     
    • Like x 4
  19. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Okay, so, I think we're reaching some sort of approximate consensus on things.

    So, in some cases, people will post things in vent threads that are, in fact, about other users. Possibly in response to disagreements. Other people may want to respond to these, or be upset by them.

    If you feel like this is happening, and want to ask, it makes sense to send a PM asking, or to post a question as to whether or not it refers to you in the vent thread. Not to argue with it there, just to ask whether you're the topic.

    If you know this is happening, either because it's explicit or because you asked and got told, it makes sense to post responses in your own vent thread, or one of the shared ones, or in argument island. Or possibly send a PM or something. You do not get a guarantee of a response, but you can post the thing.

    Posting about the venting in the original thread will likely backfire, because the reason the person moved to the vent thread was specifically to avoid that.

    Arguing with them or yelling at them in a vent thread is probably counterproductive; it makes more sense to post the argumentation or discussion stuff in argument island or something. (Maybe posting a link in the vent thread, or PMing it, or something?)

    If you're not one of the initial participants, please consider not jumping in to tell people they're doing it wrong and are out of line, because even if you're right, that's very unlikely to de-escalate a conflict; it'll just make people feel threatened and outnumbered.

    Does that sound reasonable to people so far?
     
    • Like x 22
  20. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    Sounds good to me.
     
    • Like x 1
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice