"Vent Threads" and the Community

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by Beldaran, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    For context while lib and I were talking about this privately we had a misunderstanding based on the fact that I intuited there being unsaid social rules to the vent threads whereas she did not. So I personally view them as more like quarantine zones. They're there for someone to explode in relative peace in a public matter. Not really around to start fights or drag people into them. So while they may cause harm, they are a harm mitigation method primarily. The unspoken rules being not to argue with the currently exploding person or to take their statements from the vent thread out of the vent thread. So personally I'm fine with someone bitching about me in one even if it might set my anxiety off a bit. Because it's been sequestered in the designated shit asshole tantrum zone and I'm generally good at altering shit based on contextual social rules.

    However others might read these things differently, as is the case with Lib.

    EDIT: Just wanted to add that yes that sounds find, seebs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
    • Like x 11
  2. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I'm not understanding the question. Even if everyone agrees that there exist potential responses that are okay, it's quite clear that we have had a lot of cases of responses which at least some people thought were not okay. And the problem is, different people had widely different, and indeed completely contradictory, expectations of what would be okay. So no matter how you responded, if you responded at all, it's quite likely that someone would think your response was Violating A Social Rule. And people have gotten yelled at for doing that, even though it's quite possible that any other choice they made would have just gotten someone else to yell at them.
     
  3. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I assume this functions as an exception to the assertion that stuff in vent threads needs to stay in vent threads and not be quoted/referred to elsewhere?
     
    • Like x 1
  4. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    i think that personal vent threads are supposed to carry the implication of being more private/personal, and they often are, but they do indicate that a Specific Person is upset Right Now.

    so if i had a disagreement with someone, seeing their vent thread pop up feels almost passive aggressive. like saying "i'm going to talk about you but not to you". which of course might be a totally off base assumption, but it is what i would first assume.
     
    • Like x 3
  5. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    For potential future use: is there a social cue that I could employ if this ever happens to me? Like. A ceasefire statement type thing or literally anything to make the person leave me alone even very briefly so de-escalating myself could occur, or a consensus could be reached on where to have an actual conversation over things? The waiting period seems good, but if someone doesn't do that, is there something that would be seen as non-hostile that I could use to say "STOP. NOT NOW. DON'T COME NEAR ME RIGHT NOW, TNT STILL ACTIVE AND ARMED" and have it be understood in a "let me collect myself and get a spoon or this will just continue in the new venue and fall apart because I'm mid-episode" way instead of a "go fuck yourself" way?
     
    • Like x 4
  6. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Hmm. The unspoken rule of "don't take their statements from the vent thread out of the vent thread" sounds like pretty close to what I think Beldaran meant about "Peek-a-Boo", in that there's an expectation of acting as though a thing wasn't said. And I'm not super happy with that as a social rule.

    But more generally, I think the key here is, we should not expect people to divine or follow "unsaid social rules". People don't seem to reach consistent agreement on even what they are, and we have a pretty large population of people who find the underlying concept pretty upsetting. So, if nothing else, we should probably figure out what the expectations are, and state them explicitly.
     
    • Like x 4
  7. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    "I can't engage right now due to emotional state, I will ping you when I think I can deal."

    I would expect people to mostly understand that, although I guess the "so please don't interact with me until then" could be useful. Or just put them on ignore and take them off when you're calmer.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. OnnaStik

    OnnaStik Relatively nice for a bloodthirsty mercenary

    All the talk about "Peekaboo" and whatnot gave me the very strong impression that Beldaran was under the impression that we did not all agree that there existed any potential responses other than "don't look, and if you look, pretend you didn't" that would be okay.
     
  9. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I don't really view it as acting as though it wasn't said. More as I view it as respecting a boundary. The boundary in this case being "Fuck you". Though that might be a personal thing? It definitely probably is.

    Also for clarification I meant mentioning out of thread specifically to argue with a meltdown that does not wish to be argued with.
     
    • Like x 7
  10. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I didn't make such an assertion. If people think one needs to be there, then my statement of what I thought the consensus appeared to be was probably wrong.
     
  11. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    Is there a way to do that that also would imply you would like the person to vacate your designated screaming space so you can do the de-escalating? Because that's what i'm seeing as being a problem. There's no way to make someone leave the TNT space that calmly if mid-episode.
     
    • Like x 5
  12. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    If I were venting about something, and someone involved wanted to start a thread in argument island about it, I wouldn't think any boundary had been violated. There's no innate expectation that the stuff in the thread stays unseen or uncommented on, I would just prefer not to be specifically argued with while in the process of venting about a thing, usually.
     
    • Like x 3
  13. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    I don't think "don't take things said in a vent thread out of a vent thread" is a good general rule, more "statements made in a vent thread are not necessarily going to be stood behind" and "if it's posted in a vent thread rather than an ongoing argument, there is probably a reason for that and dragging it in right back into that selfsame ongoing argument is unlikely to be productive"
     
    • Like x 9
  14. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I think it's sort of implicit, because there's no function of posting in someone's vent thread other than "engage with them in some way".
     
    • Like x 2
  15. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    Oh, I didn't think you did. It'd just been stated by a couple of people in this thread and previously.

    We DO have rules about not quoting stuff from ITA in other subforums without permission, so maybe people were carrying that over to vent threads? I have no idea of where the thought came from, but it seemed like people were pretty up in arms about the idea of responding to vent thread stuff in other threads.

    I could see Argument Island being the place where quoting vent threads is okay, or maybe quoting vent threads is always okay and the assertion was just made by people who don't get to make those rules. I don't know, I just want to have whatever standards we're going by out in the open.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Which is why I am fine with the idea of being able to ask about it in the thread or outside in a PM. This isn't so much attempting to force an argument to me, as it is offering a potential discussion. Taking the complaint to your own vent thread I feel is also fine because that is what they are for really.

    Also I personally would view it as a boundary being violated. Someone asking if I would prefer to talk about it in PMs or in the argument island (which I am banned from) is fine and not violating a boundary. However attempting to start an argument without asking if I would wish to have one is violating my boundary. The asking is the golden thing for me here. But then I'm a very argument averse person in general. So I have a lot of weird little personal rules and standards as to what constitutes an argument.
     
    • Like x 5
  17. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I suppose my main concern here is that I want a guarantee that I have a place to explode during a panic attack and not be argued with unless I consent to it.
     
    • Like x 6
  18. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I think that personal standards are a thing that you can hold yourself to, but if you talk about someone else in one of your threads, and they choose to respond by creating a thread in Argument Island that's their choice.

    No one needs permission to take offense and respond to that offense within the bounds of what we've decided here. Asking for permission to create an Argument Island thread was not one of the things Seebs said.
     
    • Like x 3
  19. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I think the distinction is, I think someone has a right to respond to things said about them, even if the person saying those things doesn't want an argument. And at that point, the least-bad place to say those things is probably argument island, since that at least gives a presumption that other people won't escalate things, and does not create any obligation to join the argument if you don't feel like it. But I do think that if you're talking about someone, they have to be allowed to offer a rebuttal somewhere, or we get the tumblr-callout problem.
     
    • Like x 4
  20. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I think the practical answer is, if you make the explosion public, people have the option of responding in some way. I mean, yeah, that sorta sucks, but the entire situation presupposes that things have already gone wrong, and we're trying to find a compromise that mitigates several different kinds of harm.
     
    • Like x 6
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