What do w/ people under 18 posting in nsfw threads?

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by BlackholeKG, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    Hey, so, there was some discussion earlier about keeping forums with nsfw content appropriately marked as such, and that's all good and I agree with it.

    I want to ask though, what happens when people who are under 18 post in the nsfw threads anyway? I know that this can and does happen. It can just be things, like, say, somebody who is 17 interacting in the Kink thread, and while in most cases I don't think that's actually wrong or unhealthy or anything in most of the context in which it happens, I just as much don't want to see anybody get in trouble for it, least of all myself. And, if it were to happen in an instance where the person in question is younger than that, I'd be pretty uncomfortable with that situation just generally. I'm sure that many of the older users might feel like that just by somebody who is 17 being in that space.

    Minors being in sexual spaces causes problems with respect to legality, and in instances where this happens there's potentially a risk to the adult users of kintsugi who are posting in those threads. Having clearly marked "NSFW/18+" notices in thread titles is all very well and good, but they are effectively useless if people don't pay attention to them! I've run a couple of nsfw spaces before and having minors involved was always something I was kind of paranoid about, even when at the time they usually were only like a year younger than I was, purely because of the legal issues. Seeing as this is a fairly responsible place where we try and do our due diligence for everyone I really don't want that sort of thing to be swept under the rug or overlooked, because I want this to stay a good and safe space for discussing nsfw content without anybody being at risk from minors being in those areas of the site.

    I'm not sure there's really a site policy on this, because we assume that people will have good faith with not entering the 18+ threads if they are not 18+, but this is demonstrably not what is reliably happening on practical terms.

    @seebs @jacktrash ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
    • Like x 2
  2. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    I should mention that the legal age of consent in my country is 16. I am not a lawyer and cannot claim to have any real understanding of the specific legality of international dialogues involving minors in differing jurisdictions, but, while I am at least fairly sure that if I talked online to a 17 year old in another country where the AoC was under 18 I would not be doing anything that I could get in trouble for, legally, I am concerned about what the implications could be for Kintsugijin in jurisdictions where it is set at 18, and also considering the fact that Kintsugi is probably hosted in the US - I was once told that websites have to ensure that they are adhering to the laws of the countries that they are based in? I am unsure about this, it's really not my area.

    But either way there's also still the problem for me if somebody else who was below the UK AoC were to show up in one of the NSFW threads, and this is not really just a me thing anyway - most people here are probably based in the US. Also, the general uncomfortableness that comes with anybody young being in those threads anyway, relative to oneself, is another issue entirely and one that is also relevant here.

    Correct me if I'm wrong with any of the stuff about specific legality here but this is what I've been told. I just want everybody to be safe when they're discussing their kinks and not end up being prosecuted, however unlikely that may be...
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  3. emythos

    emythos Lipstick Hoarding Dragon

    do we know how many underage people are here? I can think of two I know for sure?
     
  4. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    The Kintsugijin Inforoll lists a fair handful, and many people aren't on there.
     
  5. emythos

    emythos Lipstick Hoarding Dragon

    aaaah
    kay, makes sense
     
  6. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya your purple friend

    well uh, there is one person who is 17 and posts in kfantom!, but i don't recall any other instances of someone under 18 posting in a nsfw thread
     
  7. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    It does happen. I don't want to start talking about specific people, but it does happen, and I started this thread because I specifically noticed an instance where somebody under 18 was consistently posting in a nsfw thread, not being accusatory towards anyone or anything it's just that that is a fact that is true
     
  8. peripheral

    peripheral Kinky Digamma

    Yo, just so that people know generally, I'm a minor, I'm going to avoid nsfw threads, or in any case I'm going to keep my mouth shut and not post if I do go there for whatever reason.
     
    • Like x 2
  9. jacktrash

    jacktrash spherical sockbox

    it really depends on the thread. i don't want to silence kids who need to discuss their sexuality or development. but at the same time i don't want people feeling skeevy because a kid strolled into the porn party. and i certainly don't want to get arrested or have the site shut down. D:

    i guess the first step would be finding out exactly where the legal line is, because obviously that's the one we have no freedom to cross. and then we can talk out what limits we all feel comfortable with.

    i have no clue how to research the legal question. @rigorist i reckon you'd know how.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Ouija

    Ouija Nani the fuck?

    I know some forums ask you for your age, and depending on it have a sub forum restricted to anyone 18 and over as the adult party time thread where explicit nsfw is discussed and rp'd.

    Minors have no idea it exists when signing up because it's in the same category as top sekret where it's invisible to nonmembers, and for members who are minors they will know of it only by either a) interacting with adults who mention it and/or b) turn 18 will they know of the subforum.

    Obviously people can and do lie, but it covers the legal obligations the site could have about nsfw, because then the responsibility is essentially off your hands.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    I hope whatever's decided it fairly simple to follow, because I forget my OWN age much less a lot of folks I interact with casually, so I'd gave no idea who to shoo away from what. ono
     
    • Like x 1
  12. Imoyram

    Imoyram Well-Known Member

    Honestly I think the big question is: If someone is legal in their country, but not north america, is it illegal for them to participate in NSFW threads.
    All the north american <18 are staying out anyway, so far as I can tell.
    I'm not going in them, peripheral isnt either, N hasnt been around in ages, palin and bel are the only other I can think of.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. Ouija

    Ouija Nani the fuck?

    I googled legality of viewing nsfw on the internet, and the general answer I got was "it depends on the local laws." Wikipedia was very unhelpful by focusing on child pornography when I only wanted general answers.

    So, I assume, because the seebs forum is based in the US, US laws apply, and minors (under 18) are not legal to view nsfw (implying graphic nsfw, not casual conversation as jesse has covered with the "people have a right to ask about themselves and learn" etc.)

    The 18 and over subforum suggestion would still be helpful in this case, which sucks for the legal peeps in other countries, but blegh.
     
  14. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    I know a forum I've been on in the past did it that way, having a subforum that was hidden from underage users. And it didn't work based on the user's birthday as put in their account information; we let the admin know that we were over 18 and interested in joining the subforum by letting him know via phonecall. (I'm not recommending that for Kintsugi; that forum was a small enough, close-knit enough community that it was feasible for us to do things that way.)

    So are we discussing having a subforum that, like FID and Top Serket, is visible only to logged-in users, that has a title and description to tell people to please not go in or participate if they're underage?

    Or are we discussing having some kind of mechanical restriction so that only accounts whose stated ages are 18+ can even see it?
     
    • Like x 2
  15. jacktrash

    jacktrash spherical sockbox

    i would rather stick to the honor system if it's legal to do so. if someone underage is posting in an 18+ thread and it's making people uncomfortable, asking them to not do that should be the first step, imo.

    i mean, let's be real, it's not like it's remotely difficult to find pornz on the internet. where i feel a moral obligation is making sure kids don't run into it by accident. it's one thing for a teen to decide they're old enough, or curious enough, and go looking for adult content. it's another for them to be happily reading along in a thread and whoops peens and poons!
     
    • Like x 7
  16. Ouija

    Ouija Nani the fuck?

    I had been suggesting the latter as a preventative measure against legal problems that could happen.

    The former still has the problem of "logging in allows the underage person to view and interact on the subforum," which is what the op was concerned about.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    Is there any kind of legal precedent for like, teens posting reviews on adult fanfic? I know AO3 has the warning on M and above, but FF.N doesn't and never did. If warnings of adult content are suitably displayed, is that enough legal coverage to prevent undue harm?
     
  18. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    Yeah, if you're under 18 and your old enough to decide to go looking at the nsfw content, it doesn't make it any less legally dodgy if we then interact with you about it
     
    • Like x 1
  19. Codeless

    Codeless Cheshire Cat

    I personally don´t like the measures shutting all minors out of anything remotely nsfw, because it feel like it would strongly interfere with people getting sex ed type advice. Since not all sex ed is created equal, and I don´t think many schools acknowledge trans folk exist yet in those classes, I do think it´s important for people to be able to learn about sex type stuff. (I´m thinking of the How to do the do thread but also just anything involving frank discussion of gential areas. Because where do you draw the line?)

    Obviously if the law says it must be so, there´s nothing to be done about it but as much as is legal I´d prefer letting people decide on their own.
     
    • Like x 4
  20. BlackholeKG

    BlackholeKG I saw you making fire

    I'm mainly thinking of places like the Fetishes and Naughty Things thread, which is essentially just a rave of talking about ones personal sexual preferences and erotica tastes, discussing graphic sexual details and sharing links to explicit content, etc., for people's own enjoyment rather than an educational purpose. It was that thread which caused me to start this thread, a lot of the stuff in XX/XY is fine if it's educational/self help I'm sure (although of course it'd depend on specific thread content I think?)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
    • Like x 1
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