What Is Dogpiling?

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by electroTelegram, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    thread to share your own interpretation of what dogpiling means, see other interpretations, and maybe try to reach a forum consensus. i suggest starting with offering your personal definition of what dogpiling is, even if you have already stated it elsewhere.

    what do you think constitutes dogpiling?

    --

    drama stays at the door. any drama brought in i will ask to stop and also request the post be moved to your personal vent thread (if you have one) or the general walk in freezer (if you don't have a personal thread). if you want to argue with other users make your own thread elsewhere.

    ETA: it is fine to reference drama as long as it pertains to dogpiling and how to define and deal with it, and is not: an attempt at starting drama, an attempt to continue drama, taking shots at another user, vauging to let off steam, trying to ask for an apology, an attempt to hash things out, etc. those things belong elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  2. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    copied from walk in freezer but !!

    i think its the intent behind it?
    like, dogpiling seems Very Associated with the tumblresque culture of vaguing people and Us Vs Them mentality thats far more likely to make the person on the other end feel upset and isolated than just plain old a few ppl disagreeing at once

    and the aggression behind it too... several ppl being very Performatively Angry at you and repeating each others statements is a different thing to several mature disagreements
     
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  3. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    my personal definition of dogpiling: seeing a ton of people arguing already and then continuing to dig in heels and double down en masse instead of tapping out. Because there's no way to know ahead of time imo what is going to BE a pile until you hit enter and see how many other individual people replied to something or not.
     
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  4. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

     
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  5. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

    ty for threadmake @raybot, my ability to type right now is Questionable

    some questions I would like to pose so we can get on the same page fastyquick (slightly redundant with OP):

    1: How would you define dogpiling?
    2: Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not?
    3: Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    4: Have you done something that later was characterized as feeling like dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    5: What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another?

    I will answer these myself in a moment!
     
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  6. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    1: How would you define dogpiling?
    like i said before id define it by the intent as well as the action, theres a difference between several people bringing up different mature disagreements at once and several people whove vagued about/made it clear they dislike the same person being very Performatively angry and judgemental and repeating each others statements.
    id suggest 'if u replace the subject matter with "ur ship is bad" does it sound straight out of tumblr anti drama' for a reference
     
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  7. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    2: Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not?
    i felt the void's vent thread discourse was dogpiling but im not gonna bring up drama here.
    and idk? the definition of dogpiling is making someone uncomfortable with excessive amounts of people arguing with them at once so like. you could argue that unless its very obviously not the other partys intention to do so, if someone feels dogpiled they probably are
     
  8. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

     
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  9. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    3: Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    4: Have you done something that later was characterized as feeling like dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    dont think so but i have a bad memory so tell me if u think i have !

    5: What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another?
    i mean presumably the answer to this is for all parties to step off for a little while and consider how to disagree a lil more maturely/apologize 2 each othr if need be? can be hard to actually identify dogpiling as Being Dogpiling in tumblr cliquey style situations like i mentioned before bc everyones going along with the mob, so. idk
     
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  10. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    The version I came up with in vent thread before checking google:

     
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  11. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    1: How would you define dogpiling? my personal definition of dogpiling: seeing a ton of people arguing already and then continuing to dig in heels and double down en masse instead of tapping out. Because there's no way to know ahead of time imo what is going to BE a pile until you hit enter and see how many other individual people replied to something or not.
    2: Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not? Not that I'm aware of, no. Not really. I think it's an important distinction to make because "A lot of people are replying" doesn't strike me as piling on. It just means a lot of people are replying positively or negatively. They're individuals on the other end of a screen, so any tension I feel in sudden rush of replies or responses is a Me problem.
    3: Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not? I think I was told that commenting on something I was uninvolved in in the thread it was happening was considered adding to dogpiling but I'm still confused by that. According to others, commenting at all even in a vent space could be considered dogpiling and I don't agree with that at all. I do not agree with it because I'm still struggling to see where "I have a separate opinion of my own and wish to say something aloud to the void" gets swept into "this group of people are doing a bad thing for talking and should know better." I'm aware this is a Me problem here, and that's why I'm trying to gather data because I am still confused.
    4: Have you done something that later was characterized as feeling like dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not? See above, and my continued confusion on the matter, I'm slow to comprehend things I guess, or get why they're a federal issue to some folks and at what degree that becomes a Me problem as opposed to a Them problem.
    5: What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another? If someone's saying "please stop" or trying to tap out and disengage and they're being heckled and dragged back repeatedly I think it is officially dogpiling and it needs assistance. Not sure how that assistance would be done because 'i need you to stop doing x right now' is pretty blunt to me. If someone taps out and yet keeps engaging, they are continuing to engage on their own and I don't see that as dogpiling at all anymore. If they are tapping out and not being allowed to do their tap out, I've seen others step in to try and call a halt or at least be a stopgap measure so the person trying to leave can leave? People trying to call a general cooldown has been helpful in the past. I'd like to think if someone feels I'm personally dogpiling them they could say what they wanted to have happen or just tell me to leave or put me on ignore, tbh, I'm not a mind reader and I'm not able to tell when X becomes Y situation that easily sometimes.

    If I'm inaccurate on this I'm sorry, I'm having dental pain and it's like. 6:30am and my brainmeats have been very unfocused lately, but I hope that was clear.
     
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  12. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

    1: How would you define dogpiling?
    When people "jump on" an individual or group. And "jumping on" would mean either mocking or criticizing them in a nonconstructive way. The latter part is what makes it tricky, as @TheMockingCrows mentioned, because at what point does objecting to something cease to be constructive? More on this later.

    ETA:
    2: Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not?
    I do not think I have been dogpiled and I have not felt dogpiled. However, I also think I am less likely to feel that way than other people. I think it is an important distinction to make between feeling dogpiled and being dogpiled because, as with many things, one can feel something is happening without it actually happening. But that doesn't mean the person's feelings aren't important, and I think they should be taken into consideration even if I find their assessment of the situation inaccurate.

    3: Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    Yes, and it quite surprised me as I said in the quotes under the spoilers above! I do not agree with the assessment. Under my definition, I do not think what I was doing was dogpiling, but people felt that way. When my goal is to help, I don't want to make it worse by making someone feel outnumbered.

    4: Have you done something that later was characterized as feeling like dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?

    Same as above, whoops I guess that is a little redundant. ^^;

    5: What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another?

    I think the first step is for the person who feels dogpiled to say they feel that way. I had no idea people felt dogpiled by uninvolved parties joining in on conversations to give their two cents until people pointed it out.

    If I saw someone I thought was getting or feeling dogpiled (and it didn't seem like someone else was going to say anything) I think the right thing to do would be to say "hey, this point has been made a lot, the person has responded to it, please engage with their response" OR point out that it seems like the person is overwhelmed and to give them a chance to compose themselves, and maybe limit the discussion to the previously involved parties unless otherwise requested so by them.

    If someone thinks I am participating in dogpiling, I would need to analyze the situation. If it fits the above, I would probably apologize for overwhelming them and back off. If it doesn't, like if the person hasn't hasn't engaged with constructive criticism, I would have to characterize that more as arguing with a lot of people at once. And whether I like it or not, individuals are in charge of whether or not they want to persist in arguing without making new point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  13. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

    I am glad I asked the questions because we are already uncovering differences in definition/usage that might make this otherwise difficult to discuss! :D

    This differs from what I would define as dogpiling, but matches with what I have seen others say makes them feel dogpiled (or ganged up on?).

    (specifically the last sentence)

    In the instances I have seen on this forum, most of the times when someone has felt dogpiled, it's been because a lot of people wanted to voice their individual opinions (source: me). I wouldn't describe my actions as going along with a mob (and would protest to them being described as such). But I could see how it could look that way to someone else, which is why I have tried to be more aware of how someone I am disagreeing with might be feeling in this regard.
     
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  14. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    k so

    1: How would you define dogpiling?
    where one person or one small group is overwhelmed by the bad-faith response of multiple users about a single topic. (what exactly does multiple mean here? i don't know.)

    2: Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not?
    i don't think i have been dogpiled, i have not felt dogpiled. i think it is important to make a distinction between perceived dogpiling and dogpiling. perceiving neutral-positively intended actions as hostile is a thing that happens, and that distress and anxiety is real, but if the people were acting in good faith i think that's important to note. however, things that feel like dogpiling should still probably not continue if they have been asked to stop, especially because dogpiling tends to happen in emotionally charged situations where people might not be in the best shape to tell the difference between perception and intent.

    3: Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    i think so, and i agree because it fits my definition (example: the halloween is evil thread). i don't know about other people's assessments.

    4: Have you done something that later was characterized as feeling like dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    i have participated in some "trying to be helpful but possibly came off as overwhelming due to sheer number" brigades, and while i don't think that's intentionally dogpiling, i think it's probable that it was perceived as dogpiling.

    5: What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another?
    if i feel dogpiled i would want to take a break and step out for a while, and would probably also state that i feel dogpiled.

    if someone says that they feel dogpiled, even if you didn't intend it that way, it's a good idea to step out of the conversation if you were not originally involved.

    if someone thinks i am dogpiling them and i was uninvested in the conversation i would step out of the conversation for a while, if not entirely. even if i think i am not dogpiling, i would still try to step out for a bit but i might ask them why they think i am dogpiling, and then continue the conversation later. if i think they're really wrong and i was particularly invested in the conversation, i would explain why i think so. if i feel real fighty i might keep posting but tbh at that point i really need to step away. i might edit my post with a "sorry for dogpiling" but i probably wouldnt post a new post to apologize, for fear that doing so would come across as more dogpiling if multiple users apologize at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  15. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    my confusion continues to stem from my"for the love of god don't lump me in with a pile I didn't consent to be lumped into when I spoke my mind" sentiment re: 'tumblr cliquey style situations' comment. what is a clique. how do i revoke membership from a clique i never joined so i can say things without being lumped into some supposed hivemind. because that's.. really not cool to dismiss people's thoughts as a hivemind just because they happen to all be in a similar vein of agreement. When it gets labeled dogpiling straight away it just feels like dismissing it entirely out of hand because it wasn't the side or degree of side you wanted.

    like. people can agree on things and not be anything more than "I am saying this opinion".

    please note: I am not trying to argue, if this sounds fighty this is not my intent. I am genuinely confused and wanting data.
     
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  16. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

    That makes me think: I would add that dogpiling implies that it occurs in the same place (and sometimes the same time? backreading and responding is a big thing here). I'll add this to my definition in a bit.

    ETA: Added it!
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  17. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

    I am not sure I would even say bad faith makes something dogpiling, since what I call dogpiling relies more on a lack of constructive arguments, and you can still be constructive in that you move an argument forward in bad faith.

    Erm, that's not to say bad faith is good, just that I don't think it makes something dogpiling.
     
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  18. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    i personally dont think youre part of the group i think are cliquey here ! i define cliques as an Us Vs Them group of people as opposed to just a friend group, and a group whose presence tends to make disagreements become less constructive trying to understand each other and more dogpiling/vaguing/snide comments etc, as they value social capital from one another for putting down a perceived enemy more than they do a legitimate discussion. eg tumblr antis
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  19. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    true, but i meant like that multiple people engaging in bad faith is dogpiling, not that bad faith alone equals dogpiling. it's the number. for me dogpiling has a firm implication that lots of people are involved. (what does lots mean? i don't know. i know it when i see it? idk)

    i think i agree? when it's across multiple platforms and spaces and/or over an elongated period of time i think i would qualify that as straight up harassment
     
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  20. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    the problem is though that i don't see that as what happened in the slightest and it's frustrating trying to see it from your point of view
    because i agreed in a lot of ways with the people you did in fact label cliquey, and disagreed with most of what you said at the time
    the Clique label is still causing my confusion here. they were all agreeing on something and seeing things from the same point of view and reacting as such
    could that be where the Us Vs Them thing is coming into play?? because i am so confused.
    not actually a "group of people predisposed to causing harm and laughing about it" but "a group of people who are frustrated, reacting outwardly and then reacting inwardly in similar ways because it's pinging similar responses in them"?

    I agree with some people in some cases because my brain pings SAME HAT so hard I could scream, but when the issue changes the response could be so different I cringe. is it still an Us Vs Them situation once the issue passed? is it still a clique when the issue has passed?

    Same obligatory warning as above: not trying to be fighty, data gathering and blunt, etc. etc etc.
     
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