What Is Dogpiling?

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by electroTelegram, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    i was talking about dog piling

    vent thread is a quarantined screaming site that is taking an explosion away from a public space
    you can poke the explosion if you want
    but you cannot always expect the explosion will be nice to you
    it is quarantined for a reason
     
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  2. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    yeah i just think Vent Thread culture here can be uh. taken pretty far to justify stuff that certainly resembles dogpiling. if someone says smthn u dont like and u and all ur friends attack them w the performative anger of 100 antis its dogpiling but if it happens in a Vent Thread Tm its sacred
     
  3. Mercury

    Mercury 17 Quicksilver Scribe Tramples The Unrepentant

    A personal vent thread is like someone's (soundproofed unless one intentionally goes in) personal room. If someone tells a person coming in to gtfo of their room, it's reasonable. If someone goes into someone else's room and tells the room owner to stop doing what they're doing in that room, that's unreasonable. If one puts their ear to the keyhole and hears things they didn't want to hear, that's their own fault.

    This is veering away from the subject of dogpiling, though.
     
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  4. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    fef, based on how vent threads are, i could have gone to yours and complained about things you said there, or made an AI thread regarding feelings from it
    i did not
    because that is your screaming place and i was respecting it
    by staying in mine

    eta: but this is off topic and i'm sorry for feeding off topic
     
    • Like x 3
  5. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

    This is good convo, so I don't want it to go away, but could I ask those posts to be quoted to the other thread? I quoted @TheMockingCrows there already because I thought was a good summary, I hope you don't mind.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. a small fis)(

    a small fis)( 26 people in a trench coat

    feeding off topic again but no, that doesnt mean you can stretch the justification of Vent Thread for a violent response and dogpiling justification of it thatd have been absolutely unacceptable in any other context
     
  7. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    i don't mind. i'm sorry for feeding the derail though
    im starting to understand that my actual lack of understanding about the boundaries of dogpiling vs. not is kind of linked to a lot of things that are more in the general family of it than not
    but im getting a little grok
     
    • Like x 2
  8. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel certainly something

    To clarify: I am fine with new aspects coming up to be discussed, I just want them to be discussed in appropriate places so they're easier to find later. XD
     
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  9. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    im seeing so far that a lot of the time dogpiling is.. up to personal interpretation, sort of like the two dogs side by side with mud at different heights i guess?
    tolerance level

    if someone isn't showing distress or upset in the slightest but someone else starts shouting dogpiling, would the person doing the shout be in the wrong? or is it only dogpiling if the person/people in question feel it is?

    data data data data nom nom
     
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  10. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    1: How would you define dogpiling?

    Multiple bad-faith or excessively hostile (ex. calling the target a Fucking Moron Who Needs To Eat Shit with little or no provocation) responses to one person that come in rapidly enough that they are incapable of responding. I think that a dogpile can range from three people multiposting so quickly and hostilely that the OP can't get a word in edgewise or twenty people jumping in to "Well, actually" without realizing that they're repeating each other in 500 words or more.

    2: Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not?

    I have not, but I do feel like it's an important distinction. There have been times where I've seen agreement with an OP's position considered as dogpiling, because stress made reading comprehension plummet and it was hard for them to tell.

    3: Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?

    Yes. In at least one of the ace threads we have in here, I can reasonably say that I was contributing to a dogpile (if unintentionally.) It's hard for me to break away from that subject specifically, when I can say "okay everyone has said what needs to be said" on most others, and that means I have probably done it more than once.

    4: Have you done something that later was characterized as feeling like dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?

    Probably. See above. Also Kintsu-brand excessive helpfulness can very overwhelming, so that may have been characterized that way before too.

    5: What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another?

    If I feel dogpiled, saying "hey I feel like I'm not able to respond because of how many of you there are, please give me time to do so" or "I'm tapping out because spoons" are probably my two scripts I'll follow. One provides opportunity for the dogpilers (if unintentional) to modify their behavior before I leave; the other is providing a reason for me leaving if the dogpiling doesn't stop.

    If someone else is feeling dogpiled, the above script is about what I'd suggest. Disengage and refuse to let yourself be baited into response. If it eases off, maybe start responding again, but removing self from the crush is the best thing a person can do.

    If someone tells me that I'm dogpiling, I back off. I do this sometimes anyways if I'm feeling like a group with relevant points is getting close to that (because my opinions can still be said down the line) but I can't expect everyone to follow the exact same internal metric I have. In general, if someone indicates willingness to respond if given breathing space, I'll stick around, but otherwise I make myself leave so as to acoid the temptation to keep pushing.
     
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  11. Mercury

    Mercury 17 Quicksilver Scribe Tramples The Unrepentant

    A little of both, I think? Some people have an intolerance for disagreement that isn't really reasonable, in both thinking other people are dogpiling someone else, and in feeling dogpiled; otoh, since most forum threads are for everyone, having a lot of posts of people tell one person how wrong they are is pointless, boring, and sometimes upsetting.
     
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  12. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident Bisexual Lich

    true, sort of like derails with angry edgelords or when the farmers came? page after page of the same thing for hours as opposed to a flurry of people replying at once then dying down
     
    • Like x 5
  13. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I don't think "dogpiling" has to imply bad faith or malicious behavior. If you're the only person on one side of a topic, and five or six other people are all arguing with you, you're being dogpiled. The problem is that it can be virtually impossible to actually keep up with the conversation, so you're prevented from communicating clearly about your views or discussing them effectively with anyone because you can't keep up with the sheer volume of communications.

    That said, lots of things that aren't really that can have similar effects, or feel that way to people.
     
    • Like x 13
  14. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    said this in the skype chat over a similar discussion

    [1/29/2017 5:15:34 PM] Wiwaxia foliosa: in my experience, the practical definition of dogpiling tends to be an after-the-fact assessment of things going poorly
    [1/29/2017 5:15:57 PM] Wiwaxia foliosa: if it turns out well, not dogpiling
    if it turns out badly, dogpiling
    [1/29/2017 5:16:08 PM] Wiwaxia foliosa: in terms of how the term gets used, i mean

    I am kinda skeptical of the usefulness of trying to define "dogpiling" -- in terms of actual use, it kinda pings buzzwordy and "vaguely defined Bad Thing that everyone agrees is Bad but nobody agrees what it is" to me. Even if we agree on a community definition, that's not going to help with new people coming in, and potentially lead to jargon confusion where everyone who knows the Kintsugi definition thinks they're being clear when they are not, with regards to people who don't. I'm tentatively in favor of chucking the term and focusing on the ability of people involved to effectively respond, express their views and their emotions, and be heard and possibly not continuing with "okay but you're wrong tho" after people have tried to disengage, without attaching an unhelpful term to it.
    Again, this is a preliminary position, i'm prepared to be convinced otherwise of the usefulness of the word.
     
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  15. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    I don't have anything novel to contribute about the definition of the word, but I think the term has use in the moment. Someone who's getting overwhelmed and feeling the stress can say 'hey, can we slow down, I'm feeling a bit dogpiled', and hopefully the other people involved will back off a bit. This doesn't cover every definition people seem to be using, and doesn't guarantee a magical solution to the problem at hand. But I think that could have potentially helped some of the situations I've seen.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    Eh, I feel like saying "I'm feeling dogpiled" tends to get "this isn't dogpiling! Its just multiple people disagreeing! ". Basically the word dogpiling has the connotation of being an accusation so people feel the need to answer that accusation
     
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  17. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    Okay, but other people have also been discussing that dogpiling can be done with perfectly innocent intentions (and here, that seems to be the case most of the times I've seen it). If a group is trying to browbeat someone into compliance, saying you feel dogpiled might not help, but if innocent disagreeing people see that word, maybe at least some of them will take a step back to evaluate the conversation. And saying 'I feel dogpiled' is less directly accusatory than STOP DOGPILING ME. Just because the word CAN have negative connotations doesn't mean it isn't a useful word that might help defuse situations before they spiral out of control.
     
    • Like x 5
  18. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    The distinction is in "I feel X." Telling someone what they're feeling, or interrupting their description of their feelings in order to tell them what's really happening, are bad methods of conversing.
     
  19. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    I think something Seebs said earlier had the most relevant meaning.

    Overwhelming with too many messages, messages from too many people, so that they cannot keep up with reading and responding to them all.
     
    • Like x 4
  20. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    It doesn't really matter whether people "are" or "are not" dogpiling; what matters is that if you're overwhelmed by the number of people talking to you, you can't usefully continue.
     
    • Like x 7
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