What Is Dogpiling?

Discussion in 'The Undercity' started by electroTelegram, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Exohedron

    Exohedron Doesn't like words

    What could affect this situation, like with every single type of situation where we have to have one of these "meaning of X" threads, is that saying the word "dogpiling" tends to distract from the issue of someone getting overwhelmed, in that the majority, or at least the louder side, often gets defensive. Which is unfortunate, because there does need to be some sort of signal that someone is being drowned out. "Dogpiling" is convenient in that it does signal "I can't talk because everyone else is talking over me" but it raises hackles because to some people it carries additional connotations or denotations.
    I'm not sure there are any words that everyone agrees has the desired meaning and exactly the desired meaning. Perfect is the enemy of the good, but is there at least a better?
     
    • Like x 7
  2. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    Word avalanche
     
    • Like x 1
  3. Acey

    Acey optimism and bad vision

    How would you define dogpiling?
    I feel like it's a concept that's very...personal perception-based? Basically, say Person A posts something and People B, C, D, and E all get upset (for whatever reason); if Person A feels dogpiled and says it's making them uncomfortable, and any of the others continue to push the subject, that's when it becomes a problem. I'm wordsing badly, but I hope that makes sense.

    Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not?
    Been? Probably not. Felt? Very yes. It's an extremely important distinction, especially in a place like Kintsugi where 99% of us have some form of brainweird, because like...a lot of brainweirds can affect your perception of that kind of thing. Mine certainly do, at least.

    Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not?
    I don't think so, but if I have, let me know so I can apologize to whoever I may have hurt.

    What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another?
    When one personally feels dogpiled: Say "I feel like I'm being dogpiled here" or something along those lines. Don't get aggressive, but make your feelings known.
    When someone else feels that way: Depends heavily on context, so I'ma skip this one.
    When someone thinks you're dogpiling someone: Apologize, explain intent. Above all, try not to push the subject with the person in question.
    And while it's not mentioned, when one sees something that looks potentially dogpile-y, it might be helpful to point it out?
     
    • Like x 1
  4. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    1: How would you define dogpiling? - When three, four, or more individual users make a concerted effort to defeat an opponent via all responding to them at once. Text walls are a good tactic with this as well. This may be willful or no. Even if you're not personally aware of what you're doing this may in fact be your intent because emotions are a bitch that way. A bunch of people responding at once isn't necessarily dogpiling though it will feel that way in many cases. Especially not if the mass argument has only just started. I feel the intent to silence is the important part of dogpiling. The arguments in a dogpile often aren't really arguments. Given the mention of cliques and friend groups earlier in this thread, while this is a common element it is not a needed element. People can dogpile with those that they hate. Tone is also not the important thing. Numbers and intent are the important parts for me. Stressing again that consciously knowing at that moment that you intend to do this is not a necessary component.

    2: Have you been dogpiled? Have you felt dogpiled? Do you think that's an important distinction to make? Why/why not? - I don't particularly believe so though I have felt a bit overwhelmed at times by multiple people responding to me. I have at times felt dogpiled, but that's more my anxiety and suspicion that my actually being dogpiled. The intent to silence as I said is the important part of what dogpiling is for me. It's a concerted effort to shut someone up by overwhelming or drowning them out. A bunch of people responding all at once isn't necessarily dogpiling, especially since some have higher thresholds to how many responders they can take. You aren't really arguing. However at the end of the day the feeling it and the actually being dogpiled are basically the same thing in terms of the effect. But in terms of how I process things and weigh things morally I feel it's an important distinction for me to make. That's a personal aon thing though. Just lumping "feels like" and "is" into one category is probably more useful.

    3: Have you done something that later was characterized as dogpiling/would fit another's definition of dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not? Definitely have been told this at once. Or rather everyone was told this in my vague recollections of these events. I can't really say whether or not I agree with the assessments because honestly I don't remember much about the events in particular. Simply that I vaguely recall that I've been told to stop dogpiling at least once here.

    4: Have you done something that later was characterized as feeling like dogpiling? Do you agree with this assessment? Why/why not? - Same answer as three.

    5: What do you think should be done when you feel dogpiled? When someone else feels dogpiled? When someone thinks you are dogpiling them/another? - With the first express your feelings on feeling that way. When someone else feels dogpiled potentially step in and comment on how it is coming off as a dogpile and people are stressed. When someone thinks you are dogpiling, explain intent and apologize. Possibly even just stop outright regardless of what you think your intent is.
     
    • Like x 2
  5. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    /in the middle of drafting a response to the five questions, I just realized that expressing that one feels dogpiled is like using safewords. A yellow light to indicate a need to slow or even pause, and readjust. A level of trust and respect on giving and accepting the notification.
     
    • Like x 11
  6. Wiwaxia

    Wiwaxia problematic taxon

    I like this, it seems actionable.
    Possibly also useful: general guideline of not responding in an ongoing argument if one side hasn't responded in a bit (like half a page, maybe), even if you have something new to say? To minimize both overwhelming someone trying to formulate separate responses to everything said and minimize the dissection and additional responses after someone has disengaged (again, even if they're saying something new and not just repeating). Obviously, the train will take a while to come to a complete stop, but I don't think there's any sort of way to bring people replying to a dead halt short of thread locking or the like.
    Thoughts?
     
    • Like x 10
  7. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Not responding if the person hasn't responded in a bit is a thing I try to do but sometimes forget about doing. Because something feels disingenuous about just filling their alerts with tons and tons of responses.
     
    • Like x 5
  8. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    I think it's a pretty good guideline? I already try and moderate myself about that way, but it'd be nice to have some sort of "hey! if you notice that everyone seems to be saying the same thing and there's been no posts in response for a page, maybe the thing has been said enough?" social script to reference back to?

    I mean, obviously it wouldn't be A Big Rule, but it's nice to have generally outlined scenarios to glance at if you aren't sure how the waters are.
     
    • Like x 7
  9. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    Rules are lines of chalk that people can cross over... and (probably) get consequences for doing so. And that's what it becomes, stay within these lines or punishment.
    Serves a social function, in that they're easier to communicate than understanding. And they're very great for those who enjoy enforcing rules, dispensing punishment.
    But they're focused on Do Nots and consequence. They don't provide actionable alternatives for getting the things, or even actionable methods of getting the things.

    Basically yeah. Anything where the focus is This Is A Bad So Don't Do Or Else!! is annoying. Let's stick with guidelines where the focus is minimizing harm where possible, creating possibilities for at least somewhat lessened harm... including the harm that fearful silent inaction causes, where unexpressed feelings fester.


    (eta I say, like I haven't in the very last month done a This Is A Bad So Don't Do Or Else at somebody on this forum, a couple of times. But that's me, the individual, telling them my intentions. Different than a rule, where we can expect others to help me enforce my decision.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
    • Like x 3
  10. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    A follow-up on this that I shoulda considered yesterday:

    if multiple people respond to a thread, and the person(s) to whom they're responding do(es) not reply for a while, we should probably explicitly ask if they're feeling dogpiled. The prompt may make it easier for people to express the feeling, especially anxiety-type people who would hesitate to bring it up in the first place.


    Person don't bugged me so I fixed the don't to do(es) not
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
    • Like x 7
  11. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    For best results, synchronize elsewhere to have six people ask within a 30-second window.
     
    • Like x 9
  12. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    Nothing like the comfort hivemind turning in unison, asking in harmony, "are you feeling overwhelmed?"
     
    • Like x 10
  13. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    1426841418-Ch5Pg22.png
     
    • Like x 7
  14. context-free anon

    context-free anon Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    the dog pile doesnt stop from getting taller
     
    • Like x 11
  15. kmoss

    kmoss whoops

    oh god i want that to happen
     
    • Like x 2
  16. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    i fail to see the problem here
     
    • Like x 4
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