Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by LadyNighteyes, Jan 7, 2017.
A thread for Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni and Umineko no Naku Koro Ni!
Umineko's use of imagery and surreal framing devices remind me of Revolutionary Girl Utena.
I personally am both Pro-Mystery and Pro-Fantasy. Magic is real... but it wasn't needed on the island to create the tragic massacre. The framing device is real stuff happening on another plane of existance, the afterlife, and Lambdadelta and Bernkastel are likewise real and really involved with Higurashi. Battler's death was symbolic but still created an emotional imprint of him in the afterlife, the soul of a dead identity if not a dead body.
What does this mean for Featherine and Ikuko? Maybe nothing. They're associated, yes, but maybe more like Lambdadelta and Takano are. Not the same person!
There's going to be a new 'When They Cry' series coming out somewhere between late 2017 and early 2018, as well as a new entry in Higurashi. Not sure if there will be a new entry in Umineko as well, but I certainly hope so.
I wonder if the new arc will also contain the Kamikanshi-hen characters.
Spoiler: music musiiic
Spoiler: music music musiiiiiic
okay okay I'm done now but musiiiiiic
Anyway how 'bout them murders.
To paraphrase my favorite running joke from the SA Let's Play of Umineko...
Everything can be explained with the use of a highly trained band of assassin chimpanzees.
I've always been fond of the bits in Umineko that seem totally baffling and then with later context the solution is incredibly simple. Like with Beatrice's wall of red truth about the chapel door key in EP 2, and then the solution is just that
it was never locked in the first place and all the stressing over the key was totally irrelevant.
Or how much of EP 1 is explained by
"the people who told you what happened lied their asses off."
It really feels like if you cleave too hard to thinking about it as a murder mystery novel, you'll slip up because you'll think the solution is more elaborate than it actually is. Disclaimer: I've only read the first three arcs, I'm following the LP, but I spoiled myself on a lot of the twists.
A lot of it is just that Beato is fantastic at misdirection, I think. And that ties into my overly-complicated thoughts about the nature of how magic within Anti-Mystery operates on the gameboard.
We're told early on that all magic functions on a risk-reward model, where you have to gamble with a high possibility of failure, and the more risk there is the more powerful the magic can be. But it's also a running theme that witches and magic exist as long as someone believes in them, and disbelief can stop magic dead in its tracks.
My interpretation is that, then, the biggest gamble the witches' magic involves is that it always has to allow for the possibility of disbelief. It can't do anything that can't be explained away by a non-magical explanation; there always has to be a weakness in the form of an Anti-Fantasy explanation that can collapse the entire thing, because if there isn't there's no gamble to power it on. The more simple and obvious the explanation, the bigger the gamble, and the more powerful the magic possible; EVA-Beatrice is so powerful, for instance, because all Eva has to do to kill her is own that she did things she attributes to EVA, and spectacular, flashy magic like Beato and Virgilia's battle in the rose garden comes with the weakness that someone can just say "absolutely none of that happened."
The red truth raises the stakes of the magic; it makes the magic more powerful, but simultaneously the information it gives can make it easier to pin the Anti-Fantasy explanation down.
Ange has a high level of antimagic because her very existence as someone from the future means that there are a lot of things that couldn't have happened, because if they did she wouldn't exist as she does now.
Magic, then, can be seen from an Anti-Fantasy perspective as a deception that lasts until you find out the truth, and a powerful witch is someone who's good at spinning a web of deceptions and misdirections to stop you from figuring it out.
*crashes into thread* YES HELLO
As usual I have nothing of substance to add, except that Higurashi was my first horror anime and I'm finally getting around to watching a Let's Play of Umineko, so hopefully I will have things to say later.
And I really really love Higurashi. Bright colors, happy children, and ultraviolent murders! :D
Honestly I like Umineko more because
The events of Higurashi happened at least partially due to a contagious psychotic break in every timeline, whereas Umineko is more firmly rooted in absolutely toxic family dynamics and misogyny racheting up the tension and hatred to the point where a massacre can be kicked off and carried out different ways in each loop. All the seeds have been planted and festering for YEARS and DECADES, and while some level of psychosis is involved sometimes it basically comes down to a very scathing deconstruction of abusive family dynamics, misogyny, and family-and-duty-first.
Don't forget the bullying. That's a major factor in... I think all of Ryukishi's work, actually. There's always at least one person who's been horribly bullied in school, and it messed them up. Umineko has... at least three?
Umineko has horrible, horrible chains of bullying.
People bully Krauss, Krauss bullies Eva, Eva and Krauss bully Rosa...
I was meaning bullying in school by peers, separate from the horrible toxic family dynamics.
I'm considering changing "sea cicadas" to "sea catcadas" in the thread title, yes.
Also damn that music?
It's sooo goood.
I cut myself off at hitting the embed limit three times, but I could keep spamming Sea Kittens music all day. I didn't even include OH DESIYAH.
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