I am, uh, pretty sure that's not the lesson there. More like you have to actually make an effort to make amends and fix shit you broke, and that includes acknowledging what you did wrong, and is incompatible with that "I'm the poor persecuted hero who everyone h8s for no reason!!!!!!!!!" shit. I don't disagree about the messed-up part though, and I really hope that gets addressed. I mean this update's really weird and distressing in various ways, and it's weird to have problems unhappen rather than get worked through, and I'd like to see that addressed, too, but I really really hope it doesn't turn out to be some "lolnope everythings terrible" psyche. I mean, I trust Hussie as a writer, and even if things don't turn out the way I'd prefer, I think I'll probably still enjoy seeing where they go, but. Best case scenario is dreammerge a la that one doomed Rose from way back, I guess. Actually, that could be really interesting! Merging everyone's splintered and dead and doomed alt-selves back into themselves so they have all those experiences and all the growth that some selves had that the others were denied. I really like this theory now. (especially for Dirk)
yeah! that bothered me too and that theory would be a good way to solve it in a homestuck-y way.. it's true that dead!vriska failed to own up to her mistakes, but if alive vriska can do it, we'll have to see... maybe she will since she's told john that she'd rather try being good, she has some desire to change. and it would support the sort of stagnating in death/growing in life sort of vibe i see in it
Just drive-by pointing out that Vriska is, well, a product of Alternia. She's shitty because she's trying to be a good Alternian troll, which is a shitty kind of person to be. Also, I'm not sure judging trolls by human relativistic morality standards works. Vriska is a shitty human being. This works out well, because Vriska is not human. I almost want the thread's takes on Gamzee and Eridan but I know I'm going to turn it into a shit-flinging festival. KANAYA: All Im Saying Is Basically KANAYA: Just KANAYA: Fuck That Guy
I mean her society's certainly done her no favors, but none of the other trolls like her shit either. And I think individuals still have some culpability for shitty things that they do that they might not do in other circumstances. And trolls are really a lot more like humans than they tend to pretend in the narrative.
Alternian society is shitty but trolls are not inherently shitty, that's what Vriska needs to learn. she thinks she's being a good person but she's really not and it's ruining her relationships. she doesn't actually want to be evil, that's just what she thinks she needs to be in order to be "good"
Yeah. Also, compare Terezi's years of guilt over killing Vriska to Vriska's "oh my god are you still going on a8out me killing those people. Get over it!" attitude. (which is admittedly a facade to some extent, but see above about Vriska needing to actively take people up on the chances for redemption they offer her)
That is indeed part of why I'm so attached to Vriska. She's had chances. She has the potential to be a good person. Maybe even a great person. But because of her individual issues and her environment and what happens to her she just keeps fucking up and learning nothing. And that's really, really sad for me because I am a "Everyone is redeemable and deserves help. EVERYONE" person through and through. And yes seemingly being part of making LE is one reason I am worried. Because god dammit Vriska. Though maybe in some weird ass backwards way through that she'll learn and everyone will learn and people will be happy. Like with Cú Chulainn and the Morrígan.
Huh. I got the opposite parsing from it: that people need to grow into, and then out of, the roles the game / society provides for them in order to be realized people. Our surviving heroes include sidecharacters like WV, who wanted to make a community beyond war, and PM, who is the pawn who was crowned queen. Main characters include Terezi, Vriska, Dave and Karkat, who were all unhealthily invested in the idea of who they should be, and hurt themselves and others acting out those roles. That getting along with other people requires knowing themselves and making choices to change what they can. Hmm, I'll want to revisit this. Something something, Vriska's Big Hero moment falls flatter than she intended because of the terrible methods she used to get there, something something growth is still possible. I'm missing pieces of my train of thought. *Edit* And in rush a crowd of ninja how are you all doing?
@Wiwaxia This was the post I was originally implying to, somehow all the later responses didn't even show up before I clicked post reply.
that's so true, and i really thought vriska was gonna make some progress for a while until all the dead stuff and figured that was hussie showing us that vriska's just that way and she'll always be evil but she just needs to be away from people she can hurt. but i was feelin that way about myself so it might be projecting and the "ghosts can't mature" theory handles that so
You know, I've been thinking. For a story that's seemingly quite fatalistic, free will is actually a really important thread. RetJohn and Terezi's list are the most obvious examples, but looking at the characters, it seems to be a running theme--that just because the universe thinks you should be a certain person doesn't mean you have to be, and that the choices you make can have a major impact. As a minor but notable example, take the Dolorosa. She should have stayed in the brooding caverns and ignored the candy-red grub she found lying outside, but she didn't. She rebelled against her position in society, and while she paid the price for it, she made an impact. And one could argue that it was predestined, but given what we know about the Ancestors' similarities to the Dancestors, it seems more likely that it was a conscious act on her part, a decision she made. (And a big "fuck you" to Alternian society, in a lot of ways.) And yeah, fate and inevitability are still Things, but they're a lot less immutable than we're initially led to believe, I think. And I think one of the main points of the story is that you actually can fight fate. Or, as Terezi puts it, LUCK DO3SN'T 4CTU4LLY M4TT3R >:]
Spoiler Well that resolves the how much has Vriska changed argument, I guess. Conclusion: still a total shithead, but at least making some effort at being a team player? I'm noooot liking this scourge sisters dynamic right now though. (well, I mean, I am liking it, but in a not-liking it sort of way) (and using the fact that Gamzee's locked in the fridge to deter Terezi from prototyping her dead friends? eeeeeh)
Spoiler eeeeeeeeeeeehhhhh eeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhh *non-verbal squirmy-grimacey eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhh* ngl tho, i thought DAVE: ok so vintage shitfit it is was gold
Spoiler: i am only barely a homestuck I've seen that theory before, but I thought that Vriska could only control people lower on the hemocaste than her? Then again, Gamzee isn't exactly stable, so maybe she could do it? Also, she was sounding a lot like Aranea, which is really creeping me out. Maybe that's supposed to hint at her powers having matured somewhat? I mean, she did get three more years of life than what she had in the dream bubbles. Maybe she got better at that sort of thing. Honestly, i haven't read most of the comic in so long,so I don't know if this is just me misremembering her character, but she came across as a lot more subtle than I remember her being? Not a whole lot, but a lot of the way she interacted with Terezi... Man, I dunno. I don't think I'm smart and/or patient enough to properly homestuck.
The only place we actually have confirmation of gradated psychic resistance by hemospectrum is with regards to the Vast Glub, IIRC. People cross-applying it to Vriska's abilities is just fanon.
