I am going to be so impatient for the 8th book all the rest of this year. Jame gets a home! Even if she has to rebuild it from ruins.
Hi, there! Today I read that another fantasy series will be adapted to TV, following the success of GoT, and this news reminded me of Jame and her never ending saga! As I was lamenting to myself that the Kencyrath chronicles would never go mainstream due to the incest storylines at its core, I decided to google for similar opinions and I found this thread. I've been waiting to a conclusion of Jamie story for 17 years now and I think that GoT fans, who complain that Martin writes slowly, have a much easier time compared to us, Kencyrath fans. And, OMG, finally a new book!
@Seeker4001: Though Hodgell these days is putting out a new book every 2 years or so and hitting deadlines comfortably. It was the whole "being let go by publisher who still held onto the rights for the first two books" issue that did the damage. No-one else would pick up an orphan series half-way through, her writing was competing with her trying to have an academic career, struggling with severe depression (I think Dark of the Moon and Seeker's Mask need to be read with that awareness in mind; they're dark). I read the first story in 1989 at the very latest ... so yes, I get you on the long wait. Hodgell claims there are maybe 2-3 books to go, however Tentir was supposed to only take one book and took three so who knows. There are so many threads to tie up and I am so anxious to know how it goes. Imagine how it must feel to her, getting to bits of the story that she's had in her mind in some form since her teens. Interestingly she's said fairly recently that she still doesn't know for sure if Jame and Tori will turn their incestuous sexual chemistry into anything more than one passionate kiss. It was certainly originally the plan (in fact, the Tyr-ridan was originally going to be Jame + Tori + their kid, after a time-skip; Kindrie being full-blood Knorth was a change of plan) but I'm glad she didn't take that route. She mentioned that right now, the two of them cannot even stand being in the same room together for long right now, that's quite a way from a place where they should get into a relationship. I know that what's between them has to be settled one way or another. Also ... the list of things that Jame hasn't told Tori is really, really long. I wonder if he even remembered her full name was Jamethiel before she revealed it on her graduation? He doesn't even know where she was from the time Ganth chased her out of the keep until when they met at the Cataracts, though if he tried he could work it out. He doesn't want to think about it. Hopefully they'll eventually get to a place where they aren't afraid of each other. Regardless of whether they ever end up taking the sexual attraction anywhere, they eventually have to have no secrets. And who else exists for Jame to have a relationship with? Certainly none within the standard Kencyrath rules. Any Highborn partner except her brother or cousin is breaking from Knorth tradition and would almost inevitably lead to being used as a pawn in a power-grab. Jame's not going to take advantage of any Kendar. Non-Kencyr probably couldn't survive her. Honestly the only male Highborn I can think of who could be remotely equal and respect her would be Randiroc, and I personally would prefer seeing Shade have a relationship with him. A lot of the fandom would like it if Jame showed an interest in girls, but none so far ... But my favorite f/f ship has to be Brier/Rue. I'm so glad Brier is canonically shown to be into women now. Anyway that was a huge ass ramble in a state of insomnia and I hope it makes sense. But given that GoT broke the incest barrier too ... I'd love to see a Kencyr series done. I would rather see a comic-book version first, though. It's so obvious Hodgell was a comics fan growing up; some of the set-pieces (e.g. Tower of Demons, Jame setting fire to the blizzard, Jame blowing out all the glass in the council chamber with a half-choked wind rune) so beg for a graphical treatment.
Oh, a lot of thing to talk about. @Marven, you mentioned Pat's problems with her publishers. I've just checked my Amazon past orders to see when I had bought "Dark of the Gods" and it turned out to be 09/2000, so I've been following this series for only 16 years and not 17. But I've just noticed another thing: my edition had the ugliest cover I've ever seen in my life! Nobody in the right mind would buy a book with a giant frog in the cover by impulse in a brick-and- mortar bookstore. If weren't for the comments on the site I wouldn't have bought either. It's hard to believe that it was the result of a professional effort. Despite my avatar, I've never wanted Jame to have a sexual/romantic relationship with anyone else, except Tori. The whole shipping culture is completely alien to me - I'm afraid I have a very literal mind and can only accept relationships that are "canon". And the incestous aspect of their relationship has never bothered me because I've always thought it similar to the ancient Egyptian pharaohs marriage practices and also because it makes sense, since the aim is to increase the chance of a genetic trait to occur. I agree with you that before anything could happen between them, Jame and Tori need to communicate first. But even more than that, Tori needs to start healing, he needs at least to take the first steps in accepting what he is, because IMO he's been in the same state of mind since the beginning of the series, with very little progress. And finally, GoT. I haven't read the books, just watch the series in a very detached way. The Lannister siblings's relationship is depicted as wrong and more importantly, it's just one storyline among many others. Here it would be central and basically "normal". In the end we have a story that would not be considered to be suitable to YA audiences, but also a series without enough violence and sex to appeal to the HBO and other cable channels audiences. I believe we are doomed to remain cultish.
I'm guessing you're talking about this cover, which manages simultaneously to be one of the more accurate pictures of Jame on any cover and yet it is so static, so still. So totally unlike the books! and a terrible advertisement for them. At least the awful Baen covers are colorful and dynamic, even if whoever is portrayed on them is definitely not Jame. I personally would love Jame and Tori to be together by the end, because they are so perfectly matched. And the thing is: they are as if mythical figures from the Kencyrath's past have been resurrected. A pair that are one. The redemption in physical form for what Jamethiel Dream-weaver and Gerridon should have been. And the sheer power of their connection is truly beautiful in those rare moments it's come out. But oh, what problems they have. Tori has grown a little bit, but nowhere near enough, Jame is miles ahead of him in this. But the first step must be exorcism. Ganth has to be removed from Tori's head. It's probable that Ganth blood-bound his son and that's why he still lingers inside Tori's mind, whispering paranoia to him, destroying his confidence, murmuring poison about Jame to him. Things are coming to a head; there is no way that the next book finishes without something explosive happening between them. What do we know? That Tori's paranoia about losing his grip on the Knorth is making him not deal well at all with Jame being fully able to bind followers, even though it is the sensible solution to so many of his problems. The Knorth are tiny and there are so many former Knorth Kendar, or their descendants, who would gladly join; but Tori cannot handle any more. He couldn't even give permission for a child to be born until someone died. And what's behind that, apart from Ganth's thought-poison? It's that Tori cannot control Jame. Of the twins, she is the dominant one. Knorth twins used to hold the Highlordship jointly, and I think that's the only deal she would take. She is not going to bind herself to him. Of the two of them, Jame is the 'masculine' one, the ruler facing outward, the leader of the Host, the human standard on the battlefield to follow. Tori is the 'feminine' one, the ruler facing inwards, nurturing his people, fixing the infrastructure, helping with the harvests, and much else. Gender things are a constant theme of these books, aren't they? But Tori will not come all the way at once. I think there will be a break between the two of them. He will drive Jame from Gothregor just like Ganth did from North Kenshold, in paranoid fury, and Jame will go off and build for herself and her people a home at Tagmeth as we always knew would come. I hope that driving Jame out will, once the anger flows away, make Tori truly realize what he's doing. He will be the avatar of Torrigion, after all, That-which-creates, and his first task will be to rebuild himself from solid foundations, but like an addict he is going to need to hit rock bottom to fully absorb what he is and has done. He needs to realize that the test was never for Jame, but for him. She is exactly on track to become what she was meant to become. It is he that is failing.
Yes, that's was the cover I was talking about, but believe me, the printed version was even worse, darker. I really hope that we start moving even a little bit toward a resolution in the next book. I want desperately that both Tori and Jame be able to accept Kindrie's help. Something has to happen to resolve the impasse between the three of them. I love the whole Senethar/Senetha concept and how when Jame and Tori fight/dance there is this underlying eroticism that unleashes great power. Imagine when they finally connect without restrictions, what will happen then? I truly hope to know the answer in the next 5 years. Your comments about the swapped gender traits are very interesting. I can easily see Tori taking care of his people and their needs, but I have a hard time imagining Jame leading an army, unless accidentally. I think it's obvious that they are better together... and I'm glad that there is this mythical dimension to their connection, otherwise I would sound like a shipper :-) I believe I'm missing something here. I can't remember any indication that Jame would ever have a home of her own. I just remember the "rootless and roofless" curse.
Well, as far as the next book goes, Pat has said it's about Jame finding a home and since it's called The Gates of Tagmeth, I think that says where. Plus, in Stranger Blood, one of the early short stories that has not been deemed non-canonical (though I suspect some of it now is), we meet 'Krakarn of Tagmeth', who seems to be a trusted follower of Jame at that point. And Pat's named her Livejournal 'tagmeth' forever. I think there have been a few other things that have hinted at Tagmeth's importance. Since right now the place is a shattered ruin, something has to happen, and I've been pretty sure for a while that Jame will end up there. It's up near the Merikit too so perfect for that as well. Obviously this is somewhat speculation on my part but it's solidly grounded, I think. I don't think Brenwyr's curse worked. Jame and her brother are immune to Brenwyr's curses, just like Brant is. It's just eaten at Jame's mind since she heard it. No greater degree of rootlessness or homelessness has been observed :D Pat's said that she envisages an end in about 3 more books.
Very interesting, thank you! I've visited her Livejournal a couple of times, but I'm not a very patient person, so my way to cope with the long wait between books is to forget that the series exists until something triggers my memory and I try to find if there is something new out there. Yesterday morning I was reading Stranger Blood and almost missed my stop. I can't remember if I've actually read it and forgot or haven't read at all. But either way, I believe that when I first got the book, this short story haven't interested me at all, but it has definitely caught my attention now. Probably because now we've been with Jame in the stories she told. And ok, one moment to be completely ASTONISHED that Pat had in her head at least the outlines of stories that would only be published decades later!
From what Pat has said, she's had Jame and her world in her head since childhood. I'm not sure how young, but certainly pre-teen. So … a really long time. And let's face it: Jame is exactly the kind of character a kid would create. She's a total wish-fulfillment character, I've described her as a fantasy-world superhero, because she hits an awful lot of the superhero tropes. Which is also why some call her a Mary Sue. She has a lot of the typical signs. Try running her through any of the online Mary Sue tests; she'll score in the "kill it with fire" category. And Pat has called her "my dark alter ego" before, even. But she's a great demonstration of why the way those things are flawed. Jame's world challenges her. She doesn't always get her way. Plus, Pat has power-limited her nicely mentally speaking. She avoids using her abilities out of fear of the consequences.
A very gifted kid, btw. I've just had a lot of fun doing a Mary Sue test for the first time, but I agree with you that this kind of thing is flawed. Can you really have an amazing F&SF HERO/HEROINE without having a lot of traits people attribute to a Mary Sue character? IMO it's bad writing that make us roll our eyes, not the characters themselves. Sense of humor is another ingredient that adds humanity to our heroine. And as Jame being a wish-fulfillment character, I have to say that she is that, but not only for the writer, but also for a lot of her readers as well (very guilt here). Tendir is like a brutal Hogwarts.
Yes! Pat's imagination is astounding. Someone (I forget who) made a comment about her work that there are more wonderful ideas in one chapter's little backdrop details than there are in many whole fantasy novels. People need to realize that Mary Sue is about an OC in a pre-existing canon, less so an original work. Heroic characters are larger-than-life and are meant to be. Yes, Jame is statistically improbably wonderful, so what? It's not like she gets an easy ride in life, rather the reverse. I love the humor, that's for sure. Stories with as dreary a setting as the Kencyrath could be completely depressing from start to finish, but Jame oopses her way through life so delightfully. And yes, people WANT wish-fulfilment characters! And personally for me Jame is especially meaningful because as a trans woman I especially felt for her situation of constantly being misgendered as male and yet being so determined to be female yet not fit gender roles.
I have just started. On chapter 3 of the first book. Thus far horrible eldritch abominations have attempted to murder our heroine during an ominously named Feast of the Dead Gods. There is a crazy labyrinth city that seems to have been built partly because of practicality and partly because the populace said lol whatevs. Marplet is a dickass. There is a cat named Boo. I own a cat named Boo. This is unusual to me. Jame failed so bad at bread that she turned it into a guro/food fetishist's wet dream. My fingers still feel itchy and weird after the description of her nails growing and I want to personally slap the author for this. How dare you set that off. HOW DARE YOU. This is also very interesting because my only real knowledge about this series is Morven's rping of Jame far later in the series. So it is one part "That's a word I know :D" and another part "You aren't as miserable and awful as I have come to know. How badly are we going to break you child". Also I like that the book seems to be humorous. The easiest way to kill my interest in something dark is to have it be serious 24/7 without a fucking break. I love my will shattering misery and gore as much as any other Berserk fan but god dammit I need more than gloom and doom. Otherwise I'm just bored and the author has wasted my time and SHOULD FEEL ASHAMED. As is Jame is falling on her stupid face a lot and Cleppety is like why are you literally the most useless.
Also I just want an image of her with YOU THERE. BOY. as the caption because I am a dirty filthy homestuck. That and YER A BOY JAME. I'm a what. I must hug this soon to be ruined misgendered child.
Oh gods yes the itchy fingertips she had until the nails burst out finally, slick with her own blood.
Finished chapter 3. I really like the priest guy. Like yeah he is a creepy weird douche, but dammit I have a fondness for quirky mad people who are taken and used as mouth pieces for the gods. Though I might be biased because that sort of thing plays into both my religions BUT.
He's certainly a great indication about how poisonous getting too close to God really is for the Kencyr, isn't he? And nobody chooses to be a priest, except inasmuch as they might choose to make the most of their shitty situation. Priests are discarded children, cast out for showing Shanir talents, and they are resentful.
And through the first part of the book. Yay. It seems to be split into books. MY FAVORITE KIND OF BOOK DIVISION. SPLIT BOOK INTO BOOKS WHICH YOU SPLIT INTO CHAPTERS. CREATE A MULTIBOOK HELLMASS.
I like that structure too, and I love the book names in this one ('Tatters of Dusk', 'Crown of Nights', 'Shroud of Days'). And now Jame is in the Thieves' Guild, which I think Hodgell did one of the best versions of. Fritz Lieber's Gray Mouser tales seem to have started the concept, and in general are a definite inspiration for God Stalk, but the view from the inside that Jame gets makes this version better.
