I really hope he grows out of that tendency soon. Like helping people is great and it's lovely, but he loses track of the actual people at times. And given some of the shit I've done before I grew out of that that shit can do some major damage. He's sweet and he means well, but kid needs to learn at some point.
I think that certain other character is meant to be like Marty in terms of sheer no-you're-supposed-to-not-like-this-one levels, so...
@Mercury @emythos could you please help me understand why you hate Lars so much? I just..... I dunno, seeing you hate him to the point where you wouldn't want a plot point that would make you feel sympathy for him makes me feel really uncomfortable, for some reason.
I never said I didn't want a plot point that would give me sympathy for him (if such exists - I don't think so but I'd be happy to be proven wrong), I said I don't have any sympathy for him right now. If the show actually demonstrates to me some reason I should have sympathy, I'll re-evaluate, but until then, no. I thought I was pretty clear on what my issue with him is while only lightly touching on my own Tragic Backstory, but to repeat - Lars reminds me eerily, frighteningly of my first two boyfriends, one of whom hurt me pretty bad at the time but I can laugh off now, the other of whom abused me very badly for five years. I was the Sadie to their Lars. I'm not sure how much the first dude's parents enabled him - they definitely gave him everything he wanted, but they were also having him see a therapist. The second dude, his father absolutely was enabling all his worst tendencies by coddling him - I don't really want to get into it here because it's very personal and very unpleasant, but it was more than 'giving him a lot of stuff' - and the dude himself ended up a huge narcissist who took out his every bad feeling on me. So, objectively I can recognize arguments about what might be up with Lars as thoughtful and potentially true, but personally, I do not give a shit about Lars's reasons because all my patience and understanding for that kind of dude was forcibly wrung out of me. My field of fucks is barren because an abusive asshole razed it and salted the earth. Even though I might be bitter that other people are able to have empathy for him, it's a good thing, ultimately. Even awful jerks deserve some empathy... they're just not going to get it from me. This doesn't mean I want Lars to be shot into the sun and never seen again, canonically, but I really would like to see his behavior start to have some real consequences and for Sadie to be able to get the hell away from him, because as it stands the takeaway the show is giving is that it's okay if someone mistreats you in public so long as they're nice to you in private, and that is so not okay on any level - especially since that starts turning into mistreating in private, too, but at that point the victim has been groomed to believe that they deserve what they get in private. Bad news. As far as the trans thing goes, that well has been thoroughly poisoned for me by three years of shitty tumblr discourse positing transmasculine people as being lowly scum. I have seen a number of people snickering about how that Lars MUST be a trans guy because he's soooo awful! It's funny because trans guys are inherently disgusting and bad, geddit? Which, barf. Meanwhile, all of the actual transmasc people were going "Uh, hey, just because we have dysphoria doesn't mean we automatically act like assholes," and then getting mocked because the very fact that they said anything in their own defense means they're one of the bad ones. I hope that clears things up.
Spoiler I'm not super into SU but the bits I watch.. Mm. Lars has potential to be interesting to me, but most of the time I just. Kind of. Want to reach forward and scoot him the hell out of range of the people he's hurting and who are being trained to accept it. Because he pings my "douchebag in range, hit the deck" alarms and when those alarms go off I nope out till extremely firm evidence to the contrary has been observed and been shown in practice. Cool beans if he changes. If not, at least get out of range of Sadie, she deserves so much better than that. I'm not a fan of her being used as a reason for someone to be decent. What would she get out of that, realistically? "Oh, good, he's not a dickbag as long as I'm right there and not in public'? Nah. No thnx. (also +1 on 'Steven holy mother of fuck, stahp' wagon.)
Spoiler: new ep "eh, what do i care i'm rich" i love you greg. also whoa steven blatantly and unapologetically hates somebody? i think i'm gonna like this episode. character exploration is good. edit: continued thoughts as i watch Spoiler JENNY'S DRIVING A PIZZA THEMED CAR. also that guy's skeevy. Spoiler ronaldo and his nerdy lil scooter, i'm cry. he wasn't gonna ask you to race. Spoiler ugh, kevin stop. Spoiler YOU JUST SAID YOU KNEW THEY WERE KIDS AND YOUR HITTING ON THEM. STOP. Spoiler uhhh, what's happening to the road Spoiler awww, connie ily. also holy fuck i thought something horrible was about to happen Spoiler jesus he doesn't even know what a handshake is Spoiler: final verdict kevin reminds me of these guys from gumball:
You don't need to stop talking about it or how much you like him Evilas. Like. Even remotely. Just because he touches on people's personal issues doesn't mean you're not allowed to like him or talk about him. I personally can't fucking stand Tavros and would rather never see the little shit again and I hate Lapis with a passion for personal reasons, but it's fine if other people like them and talk about them? I mean I get pissed off whenever I think of Tavros or hear anything remotely positive about him, but I just have to deal with that. The key here is everyone is allowed to share their thoughts on a particular character. So someone disliking Lars is fine, if hard to take. I know your issues with this sort of thing and I'm here to say that, yeah, I too take the talk about disliking him or lacking sympathy for him very personally. And it's hard to deal with, but I just kind of have to. The flip side is that you are also allowed to talk about how much you absolutely adore Lars and think he's great and has potential and whatever the fuck else.
Ahhh, that was a good palate cleanser. :3 Spoiler: Beach City Drift spoiler "Second place is pretty good... FOR MY FIRST TIME DRIVING A CAR! >:D" I love Stevonnie.
Oh yeah, seconded. Respectful discussion is fun even when we disagree, and we may well learn some things from one another.
Thanks guys. I just... I'm sorry I took it so personally. I don't think he's the best, I think he's a jerk but I deeply relate to him and I want to see him improve and for some reason I take criticism of this kind of stuff as a personal attack and it's really unfair to you. Thank you for saying that, @Mercury , that means a ton.
I see how it can hurt when you relate to a character. Please be assured that I don't think people who relate to him (or to Vriska, for that matter) are awful by default! Awful is in the things a person does, not in the characters they like - even if I'm initially thinking "HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY LIKE THAT GUY." XD You had good points in your earlier post about Lars, and I'd be happy to see you talk about him more.
steven and connie's different expressions of being mad remind me a lot of ruby and sapphire in keystone motel
Spoiler: spoilers Really affirming to see them getting so mad about someone who didn't take no for an answer. Also, wow, I'm actually glad to see Steven's capable of just straight-up hating someone? It's just really relatable. Here is this kid full of light and love and even he has a grudge. And Connie, as always, is amazing. And wow Steven is really fucking smart, being able to race a car after just practicing at a dead stop and making vroom vroom noises for a bit - like, I can't imagine Connie gets to drive a car at her age, not with her overprotective parents.
Spoiler: Beach City Drift Spoiler: just started watching Only just started watching, but these kids. "I smell what you're stepping in. :D" "Ew. :D" they're so cute i love them
Now this is a jerk I can hate. Man, this was a good episode. And a damn good ending, too. Spoiler The whole "don't engage with him" thing was pretty great. Most shows would have them do the whole "we need to enjoy stuff" AND have them win. I like how it's more about not caring if they lose, which is a message that clearly didn't get delivered enough to me when I was a kid. (it was more along the lines of "it's not about winning or losing... but still, know that you're gonna win anyways") (I'm really sorry if anyone relates to him. I just don't think his character has been developed enough for me to be able to find any redeeming qualities yet) Spoiler: one question I have... how did they know how to drive?
