Steven Universe

Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by Wiwaxia, Mar 24, 2015.

  1. Elph

    Elph capuchin hacker fucker

    I think Peridot has learned that "you need to be my best friend" is incorrect; when it didn't work at first she was frustrated because it didn't make sense to her for it to not work, but now that it's Not Worked for long enough, I think that she's figured it out. And I don't actually think Peridot is incapable of understanding that what she did was wrong; it's just that it'll take her a longer time to figure it out - and developing a friendship with Lapis will help her to do that. It's still unfair to put that responsibility on Lapis, but I think Steven will help.
    also
    re: why Peridot doesn't think she has powers.

    I assumed it was because Era 2 Peridots spend their whole lives with a particular set of adaptive tech (the limb enhancers), and their telekinetic abilities are the mechanism by which they use the adaptive tech. If Peridot was used to using limb enhancers she might assume they were designed for her to be able to control them, without considering that the mechanism she used to control them could actually be used for other things. Does that make sense? I'm having trouble phrasing it.

    Basically, it's not that Era 2 gems are kept in the dark about their powers, or that none of the gems realise Era 2 gems are telekinetic. It's just that it didn't occur to anybody that the abilities that make Era 2 gems compatible with Era 2 gem enhancement tech could be used for things other than Era 2 gem enhancement tech. You know?
     
    • Like x 10
  2. Mercury

    Mercury Well-Known Member

    This makes a lot of sense.
     
  3. KarrinBlue

    KarrinBlue Magical Girl Intern

    If Peridot is actually being better to Lapis, it'd be nice to SEE her realizing that, so that we don't have the message of 'if you hurt someone, badger them endlessly about how you've totally changed and you need to be their best friend no matter what, and they're a big meanie if they want to stay away from you!'
     
    • Like x 7
  4. liminal

    liminal I'm gonna make it through this year if it kills me

    Ok so I wanted to clarify: my post was not directed towards anyone on kintsugi. I know that the whole relationship is meant to be mutually abusive and there is no clear cut "monster abuser and innocent victim" in this scenario. People on kintsugi do very well at handling that kind of topic.

    Tumblr.... not so much.

    and what Lapis did reminds me a lot of my own abuse, so I know I am biased here. But seeing posts where people ID Lapis as the "victim" who was "just lashing out" are very upsetting for me. Like, it literally made me feel physically ill last night to see posts like that on tumblr. Especially when I feel like people are ignoring the power dynamic they had as Malachite and how Lapis was the one holding and abusing a lot of power during that period of their relationship and how she kept perpetuating it.

    Just seeing posts like that makes me think that people are saying (and to be fair a lot of people on tumblr are saying, because tumblr is the land of black and white thinking where nuance goes to die) "Well, Jasper is abusive, so she brought it all on herself. She should be the one apologizing. Lapis is feeling guilty because she is traumatized and not because she did anything wrong." Even when the posts are (upon reading it again and thinking about it for awhile) being completely reasonable and not victim blame-y. Even when I logically know that both Lapis and Jasper are victims and abusers at the same time.

    So this is probably... not a topic I am ready to handle right now? Tumblr is bad enough right now but something ain't right when even people's totally reasonable posts on kintsugi trigger that kind of emotional reaction out of me. and the future of the show makes me kind of anxious that this is going to come up again when I am clearly not ready for this kind of content without triggering a lot of bad feelings.

    TLDR:

    :excalibur::smithsad::yikes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
    • Like x 9
  5. liminal

    liminal I'm gonna make it through this year if it kills me

    anyways, both Monster Reunion and Alone at Sea killed me, so Greg the Babysitter is going to be a lovely reprieve until weeks 3 and 4 of the Steven nuke kill me even more.

    (I also did see spoilers for Gem Hunt on tumblr despite everyone I know deciding to respect Matt's wishes and not post spoilers. So I am a little miffed at that right now. The spoilers I saw were out of context screenshots so they aren't going to totally ruin the episode for me... but they were some pretty big spoilers.)
     
    • Like x 4
  6. Rongeur

    Rongeur ~Heartless Bitch Extraordinaire~

    Disclaimer: I took my first ever valium a little bit ago (for a dentist appt later today), so forgive me if this is a bit disjointed.
    I think that she's a pretty deeply flawed person - vindictive, capable of really fucked up shit when she has a grudge, utterly incapable of discussing her issues like a grown-ass gem rather than sulking or lashing out. I also think that dear sweet precious sweet Steven, with his "must smooth over every conflict/personal problem"/"must make everyone feel good and get along" tendencies, probably isn't the best person to help her address those flaws, and that his analysis of the situation might be sliiiightly unreliable.

    His earnestness and focus on people's good points helps a lot in situations that are primarily about miscommunication between two people who are generally reasonable/kind, but pushing each other's buttons - eg, Pearl and Greg. But I think that his automatic reassurances that Lapis is 100% good and innocent and everything's different now aren't really helping her in all the ways she needs. She needs support and reassurance for the irrational parts of her guilt and self-loathing, but she also needs help addressing the things she legitimately does do wrong without spiraling into "FUCK EVERYONE, THEY'RE TERRIBLE AND THEY DESERVED IT"/ "FUCK ME, I'M TERRIBLE AND I DESERVED IT". In the real world this would take several years of intensive therapy with a trained professional. Since SU is a cartoon (albeit a good one), it'll be simplified/accelerated, but we'll probably get at least a few episodes devoted to different stages in her recovery process.

    Changing gears a bit - I had a thought just now that Garnet might be the one to help Jasper to redemption, since she's a clear example of what Jasper wants to achieve: a successful, powerful fusion. Jasper seems to respect people who can kick her ass, so I think that if Garnet was the one schooling her on how actual healthy relationships/interpersonal boundaries/basic civility work, she might listen. I ALSO think that Garnet might be a good candidate for teaching Lapis how to be pissed about things and have conflicts without being a gigantic baby about it. IDK if this is how anything will actually work out in the show, but I think it'd be good.
     
    • Like x 12
  7. Elph

    Elph capuchin hacker fucker

    From @Vast Derp's tumblr post:
    mmmmmmmmm
    good comparison
    *delicious dead dove noises*
     
    • Like x 6
  8. liminal

    liminal I'm gonna make it through this year if it kills me

    I think part of my problem too is I'm like "I want everyone to be in a healthier and happier place by the time the series is over. Fuck it if it's not "realistic" because reality is crappy enough as it is. I want everyone in my cartoon about magical alien space rocks to be okay. idgaf if it takes 50 episodes and a painfully slow character arc just make it happen."

    ...and then you have characters like Jasper, and I am really rooting for her to have a redemption arc, but wow does it feel like the odds are stacked against that right now.

    (Lapis/happiness and Jasper/"years of intensive therapy and both the desire and the support network to stop being such a terrible person" are are my new otps)
     
    • Like x 17
  9. Petra

    Petra space case

    Japis more like -montage of Mountain Goats songs-

    More seriously, it was fucking me up earlier how I was seeing people either go 'Jasper is the abusive one and Lapis just has Stockholm Syndrome' or 'Lapis is pure evil!!'

    Like, canonically. Jasper pressured Lapis into the fusion (bad) but then Lapis consented and then kept Jasper imprisoned as Malachite for a long, long time (bad) and admits that she was taking her frustrations out by hurting Jasper (bad). Now that they're separate again, Lapis can admit they were unhealthy together (good!) while Jasper is frantic to get back together, and tries to emotionally manipulate Lapis into fusing again, using unhealthy logic like 'I'm the only one who can handle a monster like you' (bad).

    Furthermore, it's kind of interesting because I don't think Jasper... was that bad when she first showed up? Once she was able to subdue people, she just threw them into cells. She wasn't really doing anything that went above-and-beyond unpleasant for what her mission actually was. And despite her bigotry against cross-gem fusion, she was willing to give it a shot. Even if it was for the wrong reasons, it's more open-minded than I'd have expected from what we now know, considering she could be executed for going through with a cross-gem fusion.

    I feel like the frustrations Lapis takes out on Jasper go beyond the frustrations Jasper actually caused her. Jasper made her feel helpless by taking her prisoner, which Lapis associated with spending thousand of years trapped in a goddamn mirror that had nothing to do with Jasper, etc. Jasper is not an 'innocent', but Lapis was using her as a punching bag, and as a punching bag for things Jasper had nothing to do with.

    Another thing I noticed was that Jasper is obsessed with strength-as-a-measure-of-worth. It's her initial justification for why cross-gem fusion is okay, and it comes out again here. She talks about how strong Malachite was, and about how together they were unstoppable, and only adds 'we could fly' as a secondary pleasure. But why does Malachite need to be strong or unstoppable? Jasper is one of the strongest entities on Earth right now. Nobody would attack Jasper if she didn't try to attack them. She knows Lapis doesn't want to destroy the Earth, and when they're Malachite, they can't focus on the mission, so it's not for the purpose of completing the mission. And like... all this probably stems from Jasper being a soldier in a very function-oriented empire with little mobility? Being strong and being able to strategize in fights are the only things valued in Jasper, likely? She's not allowed to be anything else. It's interesting.

    Finally



    Well, guy in a skeleton costume comes up to the guy in the Superman suit
    Runs through him with a broadsword
    I flip the television off, bring all the bright lights up
    Turn the radio up loud

    I don't know why I'm so persuaded
    That if I think things through
    Long enough and hard enough
    I'll somehow get to you

    But then you came in and we locked eyes
    You kicked the ashtray over as we came toward each other
    Stubbed my cigarette out against the west wall
    Quickly lit another

    Look at that, would you look at that?
    We're throwing off sparks
    What will I do when I don't have you
    To hold onto in the dark?

    Yes, everybody's going to need a witness
    Everybody's going to need a little backup in case the scene gets nasty
    You throw the attic window open and I throw myself all around you
    And night comes to Tallahassee

    I don't know why it's gotten harder to keep myself away
    Thought I'd finally beat the feeling back, it all came back today
    And then we fell down and we locked arms, we knocked the dresser over as we rolled across the floor
    I don't mean it when I tell you that I don't love you anymore

    Look at that, would you look at that?
    The way the ceiling starts to swerve
    What will I do when I don't have you?
    When I finally get what I deserve
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
    • Like x 17
  10. KarrinBlue

    KarrinBlue Magical Girl Intern

    Actually I don't think jasper would be executed for forming Malachite. After Too Short to Ride, it was basically confirmed that Homeworld is running out of resources to the point where they can't make new Gems 'properly.' Which means that there's a value on Gem life - unless it's for serious offenses like direct treason it is not worth the cost of replacing a Gem. And an old fashioned Gem like Jasper is literally irreplaceable at this point. So I doubt they'd shatter her for being in Malachite.

    Plus at least part of the problem with Ruby and Sapphire was the massive gap in social place, right? That might be less important for Jasper and Lapis.
     
    • Like x 9
  11. Petra

    Petra space case

    Good point. I imagine there'd be some lashback, though.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. Carnivorous Moogle

    Carnivorous Moogle whose baby is this

    unrelated to alone at sea discussion but

    holy shit baby sour cream is the fastest i have gone from zero to hysterical belly-laughter in a while
     
    • Like x 4
  13. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

    If there's a separate written Gem language, this makes me question the previously-unexamined fact that the Homeworld gems speak perfect English. Do gems have some sort of Babel fish tech?
     
    • Like x 8
  14. blue

    blue hightown funk you up

    so, I caught up today

    restaurant wars was so cute!
    kiki's pizza delivery service had too much gross food but had a great message so I liked it
    monster reunion was SO GOOD and I fuckin love the idea of corruption being a SOUND FROM THE SKY THAT FUCKS UP YOUR MIND, that's my shit. this whole thing reminds me of red lyrium, actually.. omg imagine a red lyrium gem

    and, finally, alone at sea made me >:3 because I love seeing my faves miserable.
     
    • Like x 11
  15. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    Well now I'm imagining templar!Jasper demanding a spirit to possess her again.

    There's something of her apparent role that parallels pretty well...
     
    • Like x 11
  16. blue

    blue hightown funk you up

    nice nice niiiice
    I'm into it

    ... if lapis then has a Justice-esque Putting A Spirit With Spirit Morals Into The Real World Doesn't End Well thing... I don't really ~get her well enough to say what she'd be a spirit of, though. something in the conceptual realm of of independence and/or control?

    ... maybe she's a blood mage or similarly dealing with demons? but that might just be my brain free-associating and going "water powers" -> "waterbending" -> "bloodbending" -> "blood magic."
     
    • Like x 4
  17. Charl

    Charl Well-Known Member

    One of the things that sticks out to me is the importance SU puts on connections with other people and bridging gaps with understanding. A common abuse tactic, after all, is isolation; get someone alone, at a remove from healthy relationships with other people, and it's a lot easier to make them accept the way you're fucking them up. You see it in cults, you see it in abusive relationships, and it's being shown in reverse in the various redemption arcs going on. Peridot and Lapis are both meeting people, and it's largely at Steven's behest. And it's helping them. He's more of a diplomat and mediator than his mother was, and that's why he's so good at making things better. Even the original Crystal Gems are meeting more people and improving their social situation.
     
    • Like x 11
  18. liminal

    liminal I'm gonna make it through this year if it kills me

    I think if Jasper is going to be punished for anything, it's going to be "this was your mission and not only was it a colossal failure but now the Cluster is not going to emerge."

    Yellow Diamond really wanted that Cluster. I highly doubt that she would take that news very well. Jasper was the "leader" of the mission, so it's her responsibility.

    ...and if you think about it, it really was her kind of her fault that things went down the way that they did, because she was really stubborn about abandoning the mission and capturing the crystal gems instead of just leaving them to die when the Earth goes boom.

    So thank you Jasper, you (kinda) saved the planet.
     
    • Like x 15
  19. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

     
    • Like x 4
  20. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    That was. adorable. And also really showed how TERRIBLE rose was at understanding human morals WOW
    and also at problem solving. WTF rose
     
    • Like x 15
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