Spoiler: I may need to take a break from this topic Yep, that all sounds plausible. That stuff still sums up to Cool Motive Still Murder for me. I'm going a bit stark and unwilling to consider her perspective right now, so I'm full of "don't care, she's stupid" and can't really engage in conversation about her motivations. I can enjoy her flawed potential and shortsighted motivations while still hating the stupidity of it. eta: Spoiler Yeah, that. I'm no soldier. I never intend to be. And from my comfortable total civilian high horse, that's monstrous, and an all-too-real kind of monstrosity. Not sure if splitting, but god damn, I am mad at that kind of thing. I can see the soldier dehumanizing thing and I think it's horrible.
Spoiler: just in case, spoilered that's fair. I personally really liked her because of that, even though it isn't a thing I can support, because I can understand where she's coming from even if I don't like it. if you feel you can't engage in discussion about her motivations, though, it might be time to take a break from discussing this.
Spoiler: Bismuth discussion God she's a good character. I love the idea of the rebellion as something realistically political, with power struggles and different ideologies/levels of radicalism. While I'm kinda bummed that yet another Big Buff Lady was too stronk for her own good, I feel like this is a bit different than Sugilite and Jasper - Bismuth wasn't just overtaken by how good power felt, she had a concrete military strategy and ideology (that just happened to be hella ruthless). When I first saw the spoilered discussion for the episode, I assumed she had created some kind of Diamond-tier weapon of mass gem destruction, but honestly the Breaking Point was pretty restrained as far as weapons advances go - it was pretty much just a way to make the Homeworld standard poof-and-shatter strategy a bit more streamlined. anyway tl;dr:
Spoiler: Spoilers, talk about irl war stuff mm, I disagree about the soldier thing - I was in a taxi the other week, the driver was an old vet, we had a talk about war and death and stuff. He told me that he was trained to do everything possible to avoid taking lives, and that the opposing side's soldiers understood and would hold out their hands to be tied after being taken down. He also talked about how the people who wanted to kill were the people he was actually afraid of.
Spoiler I feel like 'want to kill' and 'being able to kill if necessary' are two different things, though. being trained to do everything possible to avoid taking a life is good, but that still doesn't mean you can afford to contemplate in every instance what this person is worth and how they have a family and all that. sometimes you have to do what has to be done and you can't spend time thinking about that stuff, and probably most wouldn't even have time to consider it until after a person was captured or dead. it really will fuck you up thinking about that after the fact, though, if you kill someone. ...but Bismuth definitely falls under 'want to kill'.
Spoiler Oh yeah, like he told me he'd killed when he had to - once someone was shooting at him with intent, he had no choice. He did talk about all the ways it was possible to take someone out non-lethally though. It was actually super fascinating, he told me about a technique where you dive down and sweep the feet out from under the other person, but said he'd always had a little trouble with it because he was too tall. But he did emphasize that killing was the absolute last resort when he was in service, and he didn't like how that attitude seemed to be changing :( Not the conversation I expected when I got in the taxi, for sure. We commiserated over mobility issues.
Spoiler that's actually very interesting! i was more comparing to something like america and the atom bomb: she wanted something absolute, a game changer. not because she wanted to kill, but because she wanted the power to do so "in the right hands" so to speak. not that there is a right hands for weapons. it's more an obsession with ideals and that particular "we gotta get them before they get us!" feeling that only comes from strong conflict rather than a want to kill. idk i'm probably overanalyzing, she did want to kill the diamonds out of pure hatred pretty badly.
Spoiler: just in case that's actually really cool! and very different from some of my younger family members that have been in war, versus older family members who've been in war. like, my older family members who fought in wars have said similar things, but my younger family members who've fought weren't really, for the most part, taught that kind of 'killing is last resort' thing. it is a changing attitude, and I don't like that, I'm agreed with him. but yeah, it's hard to take someone out when you have to and have no other choice if your enemies are humanized--so I can see where the whole attitude of Bismuth and the others might've come from because if you aren't thinking of your enemies as people and no one's really impressed upon you, very firmly, that killing is a last resort (and I don't think Rose discussed it until Bismuth came up with that weapon because it probably never occurred to her as an issue), well...it's easier to go 'let's just kill them'. Spoiler ...I would kind of disagree. I think that Bismuth, much as I love her, was driven by hate and anger and upset. she wasn't being logical or rational, she wanted to hurt the Diamonds, and if she thought destroying their troops would hurt or weaken them any, then she would've been willing to do it--not because she felt she had to, but because she wanted to. she definitely hated the Diamonds, and in the end I think that's what drove her to create that kind of weapon.
Spoiler: half-hour special currently at the beginning and OH GOD I AM ACTUALLY CRYING A LITTLE AT THEM BEING REUNITED WITH BISMUTH ;;;;_;;;;;
I can't believe no one here is talking about Spoiler: Discussion of the problematic elements in tonight's episode; may be triggering for some people Really telling. I have to admit, I thought you guys were better than this. :\
ALTERNATIVELY, i want to rewrite the Rubberbandit's "Up The Ra" with references to Steven Universe, since that might capture her attitude a bit more accurately: If Yellow Diamond ever came to this planet, I'd chase her around a field with dog shit on the end of a golf club, I swear to God. And to all the rebels who have died before in the Gem wars? I know you're up in heaven smoking a joint with Snowflake and Crazy Lace, chalk it down! Yah!
