BPD and Friendships

so some people expressed an interest in a 'how to be friends with people with BPD' thread, basically, so I made this thread. y'all can come and ask questions about anything that might be a problem/question in a friendship or potential friendship with a person with BPD, and I or others with BPD (if they want to chime in) will answer!

 

here's my suggestion for this: basically, whenever you realize you've become friends with the person and you know they have BPD. if you know someone has BPD and you're close with them, you need to express your needs and boundaries soon, and clearly and explicitly. if you know they have BPD and then realize you've become friends, express them upon that realization. if you're friends and then your friend tells you they have BPD, express them then, when your friend's done talking about their BPD.

 

Now I don't know very much about BPD in general. It's my understanding that folks may strongly need clearly-expressed boundaries and/or have trouble inferring unspoken boundaries, is that correct?

 

yes! I often have difficulties inferring boundaries that go unspoken, and then find myself confused and upset when someone gets angry I haven't respected that boundary, because I didn't know it existed. it's also important to clearly express your boundaries and make sure we understand those boundaries--and gently rebuff us if we cross a boundary, be firm but not harsh.

 

I would be very concerned that my firm will always sound harsh, partly bc my brainweird hates me, partly bc when I've had to enforce boundaries in the past it has often been in response to seriously bad behavior /taking advantage of my accommodating nature, so I can be unduly harsh :(

Do you have trouble setting or communicating your own boundaries? Do you have much experience friending other BPD-havers? (I'm super curious about how other people experience the world so I really appreciate your starting this thread - I'm also reading your DID thread rn)

 

I have...so much trouble setting and communicating my boundaries. I am terrible about them. I do have experience friending other BPD-havers, but for the most part, I....kind of let people walk all over my boundaries. it sucks and it's not fun.

 

I am kind of not good about enforcing my boundaries, as alluded above, so I kind of understand how much it can sucks to let people walk right over them. (actually after uhh certain events last year I think I'm a little more vigilant about them now but I haven't really been tested much soooo…)
I have also heard that BPD makes one prone to fixating on a particular person as a favorite, or something like that? I remember seeing a 'how to' post on tumblr about that which I think was unsurprisingly well-intentioned but poorly-thought-through. Is that something you experience? Do you have advice for people in that situation?

And i have a tendency to fixate on favorite people myself which I know can be uncomfortable sometimes, so if this is a thing you've experienced I'd be very interested to hear what it's like for you, how you process and how you regulate your behaviors, and whatnot.

 

well...we call them our Favorite Person, and yes, we do fixate on them as a favorite. they're the person we love the most, care about the most, and need attention and validation from the most. they're the person who, if they're gone for half an hour longer than they said they would be, I start to panic over. they're the person who, if I don't receive an immediate answer from, I start to wonder if they hate me. most borderline people seem to have an FP, though I've met a few who don't, but it is something I experience...kind of on and off? usually when I fixate on a person it means I better run hard in the other direction, because I swear to god I have a homing sense for people who are gonna be bad for me and fuck me over, and that is who I fixate on, for the most part. I never have a favorite person who's just a friend at first, no, it's always the person I've just met who inevitably ends up being bad news. it tends to be instantaneous; I meet someone, and bam, I need all the attention and validation I can get from them. it hasn't happened again since my ex and I broke up about....five months back.
in essence, though, I start to rely on that person a lot. I need them. I need them in my life, telling me what to do, telling me what my opinions should be, and giving me attention and validation and telling me they love me. all my behavior regulation and my boundaries and what have you go out the window because suddenly everything is about that person and what they want or need, and how that relates to me. if they need to vent, I better be there, because if they vent to someone else that means they're getting closer with another person who isn't me! if there's something they want to talk about, I will fixate on that thing and learn all about it. they hate one of my interests? haha, me too, it's the worst! they like a thing I despise? omg, that thing is SO GREAT. I will change my entire freakin' identity to revolve around that one person, and I'll do anything they say. I would literally throw myself off a bridge if they asked me to. it's a living nightmare and I hate it.
as for 'what to do in that situation'--do you mean if you find yourself being someone's favorite person? or what?

 

Wow, yeah, that sounds exhausting to say the least! My experience resembles that only as a faint echo, like it has kind of the same basic shape but wow not nearly the intensity! (like f'rinstance, I will want to hog the time and attention of a particular person and crave their affection and validation, which I usually experience hand-in-hand with a romantic yearning; I will tend to reprioritize my interests to mesh with theirs, though I won't have nearly the upending you describe; and I often feel more engaged with people than they are necessarily wanting to be, something I think I've unfortunately done here at kintsugi too, and I'm not sure how to address that. So not the same hat, but I guess a similar style from a different store?)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The tumblr post I'm thinking of seemed like pretty much instructions on how to enable the behavior rather than how to manage/help them manage and maintain a healthy interaction.

You seem very insightful regarding your own mental health, so I imagine any thoughts you'd care to share would potentially be helpful for others.

 

I'm still not sure I'd know when exactly it becomes an appropriate moment to state boundaries, nor am I sure I know in clear terms what those would be, nor am I sure I am comfortable setting a still evolving relationship in set terms. Friendship is not like a romantic relationship which has set terms for what you're going to do together, friendship is more kind of this, informal... "two people enjoy each other's company and like to talk a lot". I have no idea how I'd know when and how to set boundaries there, it all feels a bit presumptive, and idk when a friendship becomes close enough that that sort of thing is required? Like what if they see me as a closer friend then I them... I would probably only really be able to see and do this properly for somebody in my closest friend group who I talked to a lot, but then I have other people I consider friends for whom that is not the case.

Also I am sure a lot of people would be put off by me trying to draw up a social contract... This is just a really different way to how I've learnt to operate and I'm not sure how to do it without risking things backfiring or beginning weird. I generally just let friendships happen and self-regulate and so I have no idea how I'd really make this sort of stated terms and needs and boundaries and interaction level maintenance and all that, aah..

 

But if it's the other person who has need of those things, shouldn't they be the one asking and not the other way around? Stated needs and such goes both ways after all

 

It looks like this need comes with the territory of having BPD, so once you learn that someone you're friendly with has BPD you have in effect been told they have these needs, I guess?

 

yeah, it's really not a good time. and most people with BPD experience this to the intensity that I experience it, as well--the intensity can get better with recovery, but the urges, for the most part, never go away. you'll always have that need to be loved by them, and the immediate response to that for us is to just change everything about ourselves so the person likes us more. since we don't have a strong sense of identity, we tend to completely change things about ourselves and make our whole world and personality revolve around them. but your experience does sound similar--similar hat from a different store, yes! I'm afraid I can't help much with feeling more engaged with people than they are wanting to be, but I hope you figure out how to address it.

eesh, yeah, Tumblr posts tend to be...."enable the behavior! enable the behavior! if you don't enable you're being ABLEIST!" which....no. with that said, here's a few things I personally would find helpful. this is going to vary from person to person, but the general guidelines remain the same.
- don't pressure them into liking things you like. if they admit to disliking something, don't push them into liking it, because they will go along with it, and I've known people who would take advantage of that. I doubt you would, but this is less a 'don't take advantage of it' and more a 'general caution' sign--if you get them to share an opinion or a like or dislike honestly, reassure them that you don't mind if it's different from your opinion, like, or dislike.
- try and push them to make their own decisions. this may not go for everyone with BPD, but personally, when I'm truly reliant on someone, I end up asking them to make all decisions ever for me--from big to small. if they ask you to make a small decision, generally, I'd suggest rolling with it--but if they ask you to make a big decision, definitely push them to make their own decision. try to be gentle about it, say things like "I really don't think I can help you with this, sorry" and "I think this is something you'll have to decide for yourself, it will be better that way".
- if you notice them basing decisions off you, such as deciding where to go to college based on where you're going (this is very noticeable in me--when I learned where my ex was going to college, I suddenly switched what college I was going to go to, when prior to that point I'd been gushing nonstop about my top choice), try and call them on it. say things like "is that really what you want?" and try to encourage them to make decisions for their happiness rather than yours.
- enforce boundaries. if you can't be available, you can't be available, and the reason does not matter--if you need you time, that's a valid reason, we can be draining people. the person with BPD will not benefit from you making yourself constantly available at all hours to handle their every emotional crisis and need. give them attention when you can, but don't push yourself to meet their every need, because that's not going to end well for either of you.
- validate their feelings. if a borderline tells you how they're feeling, even if that feeling is unwarranted or based off a false perception, say things like, "I can see why you're feeling that way. if I was in that situation, I'd feel that way too, and it's okay to feel that way."
- a common worry of ours that we may often express is the worry that people are going to leave us. when we express this, we're usually going to be upset and terrified you're leaving us, so say things like, "I understand why you feel that way, and if I was worried about that, I'd be upset too, and it's okay to feel that way." you might think this would push us into thinking you're leaving even more, but in actuality, what you've done is reassure us that you care about us and our feelings, and that you think our feelings are justified and okay to have, and so we'll calm down, and then you'll be able to talk more about the perception that you're leaving us, and reassure us that you aren't.
- we're often suicidal or self-harm-y, sometimes over small things. if you can't handle dealing with that, set up a boundary early on. say something like, "you know I'm here for you if you need me, but because of personal reasons, I can't handle things like suicide or self-harm, so please don't come to me with those urges or feelings." make sure they have someone else they feel comfortable talking to about those things, and if they don't, encourage them to find someone they're comfortable talking about those things to.
- we have very strong emotions and often experience mood swings--that's kind of one of the main points of the disorder. expect this. prepare for it. if we suddenly go from happy to pissed off, there is a reason, however small, so ask what that reason is. some borderlines won't make their emotions known and will stew in silence until they're ready to talk, but others, like me, will make these changes in mood very apparent--so try and find out what's wrong, and if it's something to do with you, try and accommodate that. for instance, if we're upset now because you didn't respond the exact same way you always answer one particular question, take the time to explain why your answer was different today.
- we expect routine. if something changes, we get worried, anxious, upset. be prepared for this, but do not change your routine to perfectly fit ours. it's not fair to you to have to do that. if this comes up, and we get upset over a routine change, such as talking less often, or you not having the same response to a question, or you not being available the same time of day that you usually are, explain that your routine changed and why it changed. offer to help us talk through our feelings if need be, but do not change your routine to suit us. don't start setting your alarm for nine every day because that's the time we expect you to be available.
- you are not our therapist. I cannot stress this enough. talking through feelings when in crisis mode is fine and good, but don't do it all the time, and don't try and talk us down from suicide or self-harm, and don't talk about things meant for a therapist, like trying to help us find ways to regulate our feelings. it will exhaust you.
that's all I can really think of right now--I hope this helps!

okay, so: borderlines will never, ever be put off by you setting your needs and boundaries. we need to know these things. I can't say that enough. we need to have these things clearly, explicitly stated, or we will be upset and put off by you being upset over us crossing a boundary we didn't know existed.
with that said: when you learn that the person's borderline, that's the moment to set up boundaries. if those boundaries change, you can say as much when you realize they've changed, but once you know someone's borderline, you have got to set up boundaries explicitly and clearly, even if those boundaries are just "I can't always be available when you need me to be because I have my own life". if it helps, try and set up boundaries beforehand--think about your needs and boundaries with people, and just write those down, and have it ready for if/when you become friends with a borderline person.

 

!!! I can see that being a big one! In the last few years I've noticed a lot of folks seem to have developed this stupid trend where if you express a dislike or even unfamiliarity with something they really like (some movie usually) they say "what? We can't be friends!" and I know they don't really mean it, it's just a 'cool' way to express their fondness for the thing but man sometimes I just want to tell them to fuck off and enjoy their movie. Like if I happen to be more vulnerable than usual it will genuinely hurt, potentially setting off one of my self-isolation spirals. I hate the idea of someone doing that to you! It seems like you'd be really vulnerable to that sort of statement most of the time, to terrible effect!

 

yeah, that sort of thing has always reaaaaaaally fucked with my head. I panic when someone says that. like, legitimately panic. over the years I've learned it's usually a joke, and some of my friends make sure to say in it an explicitly joking manner, but even then it's like "*uneasy laughter* ....you don't mean that right". and when people say it seriously...I just panic. like, some of my friends don't know I have BPD, and when they say shit like that, I freeze. and then immediately run to watch the thing or read the thing or whatever the thing so that I can still be friends with them because I need them to be my friend. so yeah, I am really, really vulnerable to that sort of statement, and it sucks, and I hate that it's become a norm for people to say it. like, "oh I don't know of that" gets responded to with "what?? well then we can't be friends!" and I just. panic and get upset and usually cry because how stupid am I to have lost a friend over not knowing some dumb video game that I can't even afford to play and why didn't I just lie to them and pretend to love it and look it up on Wikipedia. it sucks, and usually sets off a self-loathing spiral, and it genuinely hurts me. I'm...glad you understand, but it sucks that you've gotta go through something similar :c

 

i hate the "what? well then we can't be friends" joke. that and "if you don't like [thing], i don't like you." though, for me, i think that's more 'cause i interpret it literally first and idiomatically second. like, it doesn't make me freak and wanna start liking the thing to make them like me, most of the time, but the mental shift from What They Literally Said to What They Actually Meant is always uncomfortable with those things.

(i'm not bpd, btw. just autistic with anxiety and adhd. just wanted to talk about how annoying i think that joke is.)

 

Okay, are you really sure about this, because it really does feel to me like saying something like "okay, you're borderline so I think we should codify some personal boundaries" to somebody who isn't already really close (and even then to a degree) would be a great way to have them think "look at this overbearing person, being condescending to me because of my mental illness". I mean. Even if this works for some people, won't others react badly? Stating social boundaries in such a way is not a normal social protocol, and many people may not even have a conceptualization of it, and still others might take it as "this person thinks that because I'm borderline they need to set special rules to prevent me from fucking up", and either be upset or offended.

Also, I feel like I'd be really bad knowing when a friendship has progressed to the level where this is needed! I don't tend to judge... I mean, I know several borderline people who I talk to fairly regularly on Kintsugi and such, I mean, you're one of them, but I don't... Think that this would be something required just for forum chatting, and I've never done it, but... I am really bad at judging the "level" of my friendships usually, at least partially because I don't tend to know whether the other person sees me as a close friend or just an acquaintance who they talk to sometimes... I can envisage situations where trying to say this "too early" comes across as "coming on too strong" in a friend see, if it turns out that we're not actually that close, and like, I usually just try not to define things, but it feels like to do this you'd need to rigidly know like "these people are my friends! These people are my best friends!" And know exactly where you stand, rather then my current informal sort of "I consider these people friends, we talk fairly often and I like them but we're not super close; these people I guess I am closer to? Do they like me more? I'm not sure but I like talking to them so I'll keep doing that I guess, that is friending." I just don't tend to be so precise, and so, like, I wouldn't really know when... Idk it sounds like you might conceptualize friendship and such slightly differently to me, and have a clearly set "okay this person is going to definitely be my good friend!" that I don't have, I'm not sure.

 

*paps if you want* Most of the time it's easy for me to dismiss it as just a rude and thoughtless thing people say, but yeah sometimes it really makes me feel devalued. And my cognition isn't so much that I should be familiar with whatever in order to stay friends; rather, I feel like I should be more likeable/more valuable as a friend so that they'll regard me as more important than their movie/game/etc. Still an unhealthy thought process though.

 

oh geez, i didn't realize this was hurting people. i'm going to make an effort not to do anything like this anymore.