the gayest skating anime (Yuri!!! On ICE)

That is pretty much what he's asking for, yeah.

 

Spoiler: 12

THEY TOTALLY DID THE FUCKING OPENING TOGETHER LIKE I WANTED, BUT OFF SCREEN. THAT BIT WHEN YUURI SAYS YURIO HELPED HIM WITH A MOVE. YURIO IS WEARING THE OPENING OUTFIT.
ALSO
MY LOVES
MY HEART ACHES I LOVE THEM SO MUCH

 

Spoiler: Episode 12

HOLY SHIT YUURI FINALLY NAILED HIS FREE SKATE. I'M SO PROUD OF HIM. SO PROUD.

I NEED TO WATCH THAT TEN MORE TIMES.

TEARS FOR EVERYONE.

I...don't know if I'm disappointed or happy about the resolution to Victor's arc? I'm in a weird place of feeling too many feels to correctly process what they are. I'll check back in the morning. I was delighted with the pairs skate, though!

The detail I noticed most in this episode is that the camera never let you forget the rings. Whenever one of their hands was in a shot, the ring was sparkling. It was like an extra narrator whose job was just to scream "IN CASE YOU FORGOT, THEY'RE ENGAGED" for 23 minutes!

 

aand anothER THing

Spoiler

I've seen a lot of people around the internets be really upset by Yuuri's reaction to Victor's crys, which is totally fair. Sure, I was really identifying with Yuuri's 'you're crying, neat/cute' reaction because I thought it was the darlingest thing I had seen all day and I had been pushing for crying Victor for a weird amount of time, but I wasn't bothered at all during that scene (aside from my terror that they would actually break up) and I've been unpacking why.

Ignoring the fact that me wanting this to happen was a pretty big factor in my serene reaction, it was also a good parallel to the time Victor made Yuuri cry. Yuuri bawled his damn eyes out and Victor was insensitive enough to say 'ah, shit, I didn't want you to cry, should I kiss you to shut you up?' which is a pretty big insult if you've (probably) been waiting for your first kiss with this person for a while. (The only reason I say 'probably' is because some of the theories that they had already been tentatively starting a kissy relationship before that scene are cute.) Then Yuuri had to literally scream that he needed emotional support at him in a parking garage because Victor has put that little time/thought into how to handle Yuuri as a person. In other words, Vic fucked that one up. The first scene in episode 12 was a pretty good parallel--Yuuri handles Victor's emotional state poorly and is humanized in a way similar to how Victor was. They both have a lot of trouble handling emotional extremes and they're both more used to getting attention/compassion (as sports stars) than giving it. Victor fucked up the last one and got an important realization about how he has to change to support Yuuri; Yuuri fucked up this one, and while he didn't seem to have had many second thoughts about doing it or about exactly how he chose to do it yet (Yuuri you fucktruck that could have been done with so much less drama, 'consider going back to your own career if I win this--I want you to grow as a person and as a skater too if that's what you want') which kind of unnerves me, it's kind of nice to see this... uglier side of Yuuri.

I'll talk about what I think was going on in his head in a sec, but though he's a very compassionate person with the ability to love deeply, he gets stuck in his own head, wrapped up in his anxiety and convictions, and sometimes fails to see outside of them and into other peoples' positions because he's so convinced of his own view of things. Like being sure everyone hates him and taking years to see that people have been supporting him all along. I'm not putting good words around this, but part of what makes their relationship so good for them is that they're both BAD AT RELATIONSHIP--they're not direct, they have so much trouble phrasing their feelings that it's almost impossible, they're terrified of being rejected, and they have to turn to art and metaphors to make their feelings known to other people because they just can't do it upfront. And they're very, very bad at emotions and serious talks. Both of them. It's something they're pretty well matched in, and as such, something they might be pretty good at working through together--if they both have to go slowly and both take a lot of time to talk things out and work through their emotions together, well, that's fine. They both shut down when someone cries in front of them and don't know how to handle it. At least they're in the same boat -u- They'll both realize this is a flaw they have and drive each other to succeed, for each other. They'll learn how to help each other.

As someone with some pretty wicked anxiety myself, this is what I assumed was going on in Yuuri's head: He doesn't seem surprised by the emotional reaction, by Victor's disappointment and sadness and anger, because he expected it. He knew he was doing something bad, something mean, to give someone a ring and then imply with his words he might go back on that promise, but he feels like he has to and Victor will be better for it in the end.

When I have to have a tough conversation I know will upset someone or say something harsh to someone--or break up with someone, as I've had to do before, I'm doing something I think is very bad and I'm expecting to make someone miserable. As such, my reaction isn't surprise or wondering why this is happening--my reaction is acceptance that, look at that, I've made them miserable, like I thought I would, and now I have to stew in being a bad person. So I usually wouldn't react overtly to someone crying in that headspace because I know, I know I'm hurting you, I'm sorry. That paralyzes you--you feel so bad and you feel like you're getting a punishment you deserve, so you're less likely to stop the punishment, even if that punishment is actually someone having an emotional reaction who you should comfort. The way he doggedly goes on with saying uncomfortable things and explaining his reasons for splitting up their relationship reveals it to be something of a rehearsed speech, which it would have to be to get past his anxiety. He's just putting his head down and barrelling through the script, which he already knows will hurt Victor (because as convinced as he is that he doesn't deserve him, he must also be aware at least in part that he has him, he just probably is full of impostor syndrome and feels like he doesn't deserve Victor and shouldn't rightfully have won him). He just thinks the best way to take off the band-aid is rip it off. They don't have to have a fight, they can just separate and come to terms with it later, in private, which hurts a little less to him as an intensely private individual. As such Victor's worsening reaction and his unkind words (unkind but not undeserved in this particular scene) are, to Yuuri, part of his punishment for doing this at all, which is why he doesn't much react to them. Yup, he's a selfish idiot. He already thought that. Yes, Victor's hurt. Of course he is, Yuuri's being an asshat and he knows it. He's crying. Yup, made him miserable, you smooth operator, just like you knew you would. He's agreeing to consider splitting up? Who fucking wouldn't, after that? ...Wait, he's surprised?

In my head, Yuuri's being incredibly self-defeating, and maybe on purpose. The scene going worse just confirms in his head that he's awful and he hunkers down further into the emotional remove from the pain. He's already so mad at himself and miserable that it's hard to react to it and he forgets, or doesn't realize, that this is a SURPRISE to Victor, that his heart is kind of being ripped up right now, and Yuuri should act like this wasn't inevitable and they knew it was coming and they just have to get through the break up.

...That said, none of that really explains Yuuri's "you're actually crying, neato" reaction, which is still weird, now that I remove myself from my initial "lol same" reaction. Theories: it was a bit of black humor, maybe done because he's struggling with the fact that Victor is upset at all. Or: this is Yuuri's version of the "should I just kiss you" line so the cryscenes are even better paralleled; Victor turns to inappropriate and callous suggestions, characteristic of his casual use of intimacy, and Yuuri turns to... that thing? Kind of like how he once poked his balding spot to cheer him up? Maybe casually poking fun at him works?..... (Nope.) Or: On top of having a dom streak, Yuuri also has a sadistic streak, and he's finding that out at the worst possible moment. Or: these little scenes actually aren't as uncommon for them as we thought, they occasionally have talks like these and, as it turns out, one of both of them is a pretty frequent crier, so they're used to ignoring that to save face and not make things awkward. Leading to last theory: They're being dudes, and acknowledging that a dude is crying and honestly upset about something is like saying they're not manly, which isn't cool, bro.

I'm grasping at straws a bit for that particular moment.

Upon rewatching it I note that Victor is very carefully not making any moves at all, perhaps because he's embarrassed, and using a kind of sarcastic/bratty tone to speak to him at first--he's acting closed off despite crying, and Yuuri might be really hesitant to bridge the gap because of that. Victor is acting like he doesn't actually want comforted, whether he does or doesn't, just gets very still and quiet and cries, and first off, no wonder Yuuri is just closing in and feeling awful about himself, and second, if someone is making absolutely no signal they want comforted despite crying... that's worrying and would stall a lot of people from reacting. It's unusual, I would hesitate too. He's not even trying to dry his own tears, he's acting like they're not there. It might be someone trying to be strong who would be insulted if comforted; it also might be someone avoiding getting angry. Which, by the way, Victor IS angry, and when Yuuri tries to touch him (to push his hair away to see him cry) Victor does smack his hand out of the way. Yuuri was being a jerk, but, you know, Victor did react physically, which then startled Yuuri, and in about 20 seconds he starts grabbing his shoulder and getting just a wee bit aggressive, just a note. Anyway Vic isn't really reacting like someone who wants to be held, whether he secretly does or not, he's reacting like someone who doesn't want to be crying and is embarrassed he is and miiiight just lash out. I don't believe he'd lash out violently, but Yuuri also is definitely the type to clam up and deescalate if he senses that.

And then there's a very abrupt cut off, keeping us from seeing how the discussion continued--just a terse, emotionally barren summary from Yuuri. F A S C I N A T I N G.

Holy lord, how did I type that much about less than a minute and a half of screen time?... I just didn't think Yuuri's subdued, even harsh reaction to Victor crying was that weird (how much of a good/bad reaction it is I haven't actually decided; the solution to someone being upset enough to cry isn't always to act like this is a huge crisis or get emotional yourself) and I wanted to talk a bit about a few reasons why I don't think it was malicious (necessarily, now I'm charmed by closeted sadist!Yuuri) or a weird thing for him to do. He's emotionally stunted and doesn't know how to handle this sort of thing, y'all. He loves Victor. He just thinks he's trash himself and that this'll be the best thing for Victor and that this shouldn't have been surprising to him. He acts shocked when he realizes this is a surprise to Victor! Why wouldn't Victor want to leave him when the season was done? Wasn't he expecting this?

He wasn't. Yuuri hasn't realized that quite yet. He would react differently, I think, if he thought Victor wasn't secretly expecting this.

 

My favorite was when Victor clutched his heart because the end of Yuuri's FS made him Feel An Emotion and his ring instantly glimmers like Sauron himself forged it. That's so. Fucking. Shoujo.

 

Spoiler

I thought Yuuri's reaction to Victor's crying was genuine shock -- he's so down on himself he can't imagine Victor would be THIS upset at the idea of them going their separate ways, especially in the wake of watching Victor being wistful and pensive as he watched the ice earlier that day. In his mind, he's just giving Victor an out that he's probably been wanting, which is also, I think, pretty Japanese i.e. responding to the wants you think someone has but is too polite to voice.

HE'S JUST SO SURE HE'S BEEN A BURDEN! Sweet dumb Yuuri.

 

No wonder shoujo is so frustrating sometimes, LOL

 

Spoiler: kinda personal?

I'm surprised people have objections to that, because my reaction to my boyfriend's crying (and my boyfriend's reaction to me crying) is to turn to black humor and teasing, even if we're mad at each other - we make jokes and quips and teases all the time as a way to show affection because we're both emotionally stunted and terrible at helping other people, and even when we're arguing, we're starting from a perspective that we don't want to stay mad at each other; we can be angry at the moment, but the goal of a discussion is to solve a problem, and we still like each other so we do what we always do.
in this case the problem yuuri wants to solve is 'giving viktor the out he wanted so he can go back to the ice instead of being dragged along with me because of my stupid whims', which is like incredibly sad and self depreciating, but that was my interpretation of his reaction.

 

Spoiler

Yes, but well... Yuuri was being a little diskish. Not necessarily because of anything he did, because yeah, I've handled someone crying before by silent affirmation, quiet talking through, and/or humor to lighten the mood, and yes it absolutely does depend on how an individual couple handles their relationship, but there's a time and a place. It's not really the time in this instance because Victor is pretty damn upset, clearly more upset than Yuuri thought he was at first; Victor thinks the man who just betrothed him is breaking up with him and he's freaking out way more than Yuuri knows. I just defend that Yuuri doesn't WANT to be a dick. He's trying really hard to not be a dick! It's just the only way he knows.

EDIT: I didn't realize it, but this was my 1000th posting on kintsugi.seebs.net. I was calling an anime character a dick in an anime discussion thread, but lovingly. Go me!

 

OH NO! I joined the board (and this thread) at the end of the show. Which is okay, because I only started watching it 3 weeks ago. The only fandoms I haven't joined late are Utena and Homestuck but I kinda did because i didn't participate in the community for yeaaaaaars. At least there is absolutely going to be a season two, right?

Spoiler: I KINDA LIVEBLOGGED IT: Also is JJ dressed like Cartman in that shot of him as a child?

So I am kind of not expecting Yuuri to win the gold. Like, I sort of don't want him to?

Like. I feel like the most fitting conclusion to his 'arc' is to realize that maybe what he wan't from Victor isn't a... stunning abuse of professional ethics and instead a relationship where they can just enjoy eachother. And maybe the gold can go to Otabek or Phichit ot really anyone who isnt JJ.

But this could just be me flappin' my jaw. I feel like this is also informed by me being a very frustrated, very queer western woman during some of the most egregious lowpoints in shoujo-ai.

ohhhhh glittery ring.

Nevermind definitely want Phichit to win. Dang shoujo playing with my emotions.

JEEZE LOUISE that scene with Yuuri and Victor just kiss already.

STUNNING PERFORMANCE last place now go make out with victor

okay nobody makes out w/ victor but it is implied

I am kind of enjoying the fact that everyone is performing at their very best. Victor's hiatus created a power vacuum.

He lost by a very small amount!! Yuri is okay to win this I think. He became more sympathetic

ooooookay i am happy.

 

Btw I love every single dog in yuri on ice. In season 2 I want the dogs to meet, if possible.

 

I'm not sure censoring was the issue, given how apparently late at night the show aired in Japan? I think it really does come down to the creator wanting the characters to have private moments, for there to be things just between them. I don't know WHY, but a part of me can appreciate how subtle it is.

I kinda wanna watch the show from the start and see the little developments in the background, like at what point Yuuri went from refusing to sleep with Victor to pushing beds together in hotel rooms. >_>

 

I'm going to have to do a full rewatch to go through this with a fine tooth comb to see if the narrative supports this theory, but I'm actually fine with not seeing an explicit romantic moment between Yuuri and Vitya and this is why:

Spoiler: Discussing episodes 1 thru 12

Yuri!!! On Ice’s narrative structure is informed mainly by Yuuri’s feelings about skating.

The reason we don’t get to see emotional/physical breakthrough moments in Yuuri’s romantic relationship outside of the context of ice-skating is because the show is not just about Yuuri working through his emotions on the ice (which is explicitly stated in Ep 1, though I don’t think anyone thought that it would have quite such an impact on the series) but also and more importantly about Yuuri’s emotions about skating, and most of his breakthrough emotional moments we see actually feed into him rediscovering his passion for skating and sense of self-worth as a skater.

Looking closer: Early series, we see and are told that Victor feels that his skating is stagnant, he’s no longer able to surprise anyone because he’s done it all. This is actually true of Yuuri as well – he’s feeling like he’s progressed as far as he can and that’s because he’s still in the position of putting Victor (and to a certain extent his fellow competitors) on a pedestal. Yuuri needs the emotional breakthrough that he is seen as relevant and worthy by his peer and rivals in order to skate to his full potential.

(I actually think this reflects on JJ, too – as we see JJ crumble at the Grand Prix final SP, he sees his competitors as above him and it looks like that could be partly because he’d not really made any effort to connect with them apart from trash-talk. He underestimated all the skaters there because he was still fixated on Victor, who wasn’t even skating, and he suddenly realised that he wasn’t even competing on the same terms.)

The reason that we don’t see breakthrough moments in Yuuri and Victor’s personal relationship – see cutaways at the garage in Ep 7, obscured kisses, no private discussions between them outside the framing of coaching – is because those relationship moments don’t actually impact on Yuuri’s development as a competitive skater. Those moments are personal between Victor and Yuuri and I’m honestly happy to see them remain that way, because this is all about Yuuri’s skating.

(On a personal level I’d have loved to see them at least kiss, but I respect the decision to not show it.)

The early series ‘personal’ moments we do see – Victor flirting, trying to get Yuuri to open up – are easy to contextualise as relevant to Yuuri’s skating because Yuuri is not, at that point, seeing Victor as a person. He is seeing Victor Nikiforov, skating legend and idol. And Victor Nikiforov the idol has been informing Yuuri’s skating since he begun skating. That begins to drop off as Yuuri grows comfortable with Victor as a person, and we don't need to see their personal discussions because it's not informing Yuuri's skating.

Even when Yuuri begins skating well – his Eros SP – it’s more about the ‘persona of Eros’ he takes on. There was an excellent meta post on Tumblr about how Yuuri is taking on the role of dom in that scenario. Look at how Yuuri frames his performance – it’s almost never about him as a competitor. He even outright states in Ep 7 that he wants to be hated as the man who took Victor from the world – he’s still not seeing himself as being a skater in his own right, but how he disrupted the field by taking Victor away.

We see the rings exchanged purely because Yuuri is framing it as a good luck charm for skating, even though I believe he knows at that point that he and Victor are in a committed relationshoip. Any time Yuuri is relating his emotions to skating or emoting about skating, we see it. And sometimes that includes the way he sees Victor, or Yurio, or Phichit. We don’t see him relate to them as people and friends (and I’m sure that Yuuri does, but offscreen) because that’s not relevant to the skating.

I'm inclined to say that between the hotel scene and the start of the FS, Yuuri and Victor have a talk about how they feel about each other without relating it to skating. The scene at the GP final FS is them working their shit out professionally. Victor's pissed because he think's Yuuri's not being fair by considering retiring after the season. Victor wants to compete with Yuuri! He wants to have that edge to their relationship because it will make them both better. Yuuri completely fails to understand it until, I think, he's on the ice himself and finds that yeah, he does still want to surpass Victor.

(It’s no surprise at the start of Ep 12 when Victor calls Yuuri selfish. Yuuri is ridiculously self-effacing and yet somehow as self-centred as a gyroscope. He’s looked at how Victor coaching him affected him, and how it affected the skating world, but he somehow neglected to see that Victor wants Yuuri as a peer.)

Ep 12 also revealed a bit of Yurio's motives. I think Yurio doesn’t see Victor as a rival purely because Victor acts as both a mentor and a predecessor for Yurio. Yurio is, I think, absolutely afraid that he’ll be seen as Victor 2.0, Victor’s natural successor, and that’s partly why he fixates on Yuuri as a rival – and bearing in mind that Yurio’s motives for his hot-and-cold behaviour to Yuuri were opaque until the final episode, and I do think that’s also a deliberate narrative choice. Yurio wants Yuuri to do well, because he thinks Yuuri’s skating is – elegant, perhaps? interesting? vibrant? - and he wants Yuuri to challenge Yurio in the way he thinks he should be challenged. I think Yurio's a typical tsundere type, he'll insult you with one line and then reveal how deeply he actually cares the next second. He's a perfect little spitting kitten and I absolutely love him.

Anyway that's the beginning of my thoughts and I haven't even got to the multi-paragraph essay where I rhapsodise over Phichit being the purest cinnamon roll and why everyone should love him.

 

Spoiler: Raining on parades, feel free to skip

Nngh. I think I might not be happy with the ending, even though it was beautiful? Spoilering my complaint to not be a total downer, please close the spoiler if you don't want downer things.

Episode 12 didn't fit, narratively, with the rest of the show. If they had allowed Yuuri to win gold, Victor to retire and hand over the role of the king of Russian figure skating to Yuri, and Yuuri and Victor to go home to Hasetsu, it would have been clean, and I felt like they were building towards that for most of the show and made a decision to sacrifice a good and timely resolution of their last open plot arcs to leave the door open to a season 2. That scene on the beach where we see that Victor thinks of Hasetsu as home now? What's the point of it if they're all moving to St Petersburg?

The character arcs don't make sense now. They set up a long arc for Yuuri to learn to trust himself and his skills, to have confidence that he can be the best and stand on a level playing field with his idol, and he lost to a newcomer just like he's been afraid of all along and then Victor made fun of him for not winning a gold. Yuri was supposed to learn to slow down. A lower finish would have been good for him - he has a long career ahead of him, with lots of medals to win, and he doesn't have an adult's muscles or stamina yet. This was brought up REPEATEDLY and then just kind of dropped on the floor. He's still on the upswing and he's the future of Russian skating. Instead, he wins, and where the hell does he go now? And Victor - if he had retired, it would have been a story about moving on when it's time and finding something new to bring you joy. But instead he's still hanging on until his body makes the decision to retire for him. That's not a good end for a living legend.

Leaving Yuuri and Victor's relationship in undefined limbo also feels like a strange decision. That fight at the start of the episode could have been used productively to force them to talk about what they are to each other, using words, and finally get them on the same page. Instead...nope.

I'm sorry for being a grump, I'm just very irritated that in their eagerness to set up a second season, they didn't close the plot arcs from the first cleanly.

 

Spoiler: a little the same

As much as I loved many things that happened, I'm... discontented with Victor returning to competitive skating. It sets up for a really cool dynamic but is... inherently a bad idea? He's too old for it. It's not going to be like he thinks it is. He's going to be able to pull off a year at best. And yeah this makes the scene on the beach seem... it was a very poignant moment and now... I guess that's been scrapped? He doesn't actually feel like he can finally give up his career as the thing which defines him and move on to a quiet life? ok

What bothers me most, and I had to think through it, was that Vic didn't even seem to be considering coming back until Yuuri suggested it. Well. He looked like he may, may have been jealous of the other skaters, but that seemed like him coming to terms once and for all that no, this is not his life anymore. The narrative was, I thought, trying to fake me out with uncomfortable hints that he regrets leaving skating, but I guess, no, he was, and that's a good thing? It feels like he agreed to do this thing in a moment of passion because OMG YUURI YOU HAVE SUCH GOOD IDEAS I LOVE YOU LET'S BE SKATING COMPETITORS THAT SOUNDS FUN and not really like something he was considering beforehand. Vic, this is why so many people were worried about you dumping everything to go live with this man. You clearly have a tendency to... well... get obsessive and let someone else decide things for you. You've point blank told us you've been doing that for 20 years. Honey, is this actually what you want? I AM CONCERN. THIS WOULD ALL BE A LOT EASIER TO EXAMINE IF YOU DIDN'T EXCLUSIVELY COUCH YOUR RELATIONSHIP IN TERMS OF YOUR CAREERS AND I COULD FOR SURE TELL WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ONE OR THE OTHER.

It threw me for a loop because I was understanding all of the subtext for the past like 8 episodes as leading to Victor finally letting his career go as he watched the competition as it is now and realized that he doesn't have to be Victor The Skater anymore, he can step out of the limelight and be Victor, finally. Or I guess not? Do I have to rexamine everything? I'm getting 'end of homestuck' feels too now. Ok... I guess... I could look over the whole narrative again and convince myself it makes sense but... I wanted enthusiastic househusband Victor who takes five hours to leave the bed in the morning and treats Yuuri's family like his own and WHATEVER........

 

I am also worried about Yurachka :/ Now the only room for improvement he has is "same thing but with an even more impossibly high score." For like twelve more years. If he makes it that long without burning out.
Are we sure Vic's actually coming back to competitive skating? I thought the end scene was an "exhibition" and that meant they were just performing, not competing.

 

Upon even further thought, there's clearly something here that's irritating me that isn't the character arcs, and I'll shut up until I figure out what it is. Maybe once I can drag it out into the open, I'll be able to think about it differently.

Quite apart from my ill-defined salt, let me just appreciate that Yuri's playbook for encouraging someone to do Thing includes getting up in their face and yelling at them, as insultingly as possible, to do the opposite of Thing, in the hope that they will be motivated to do Thing by sheer spite. If that fails, he apparently progresses to Threatening Skating.

I love this awful kid.

 

He seemed VERY passionate about kicking Katsuki's ass forever after, though. I really would love to see this rivalry developed. Especially because it is almost entirely unrequited and oblivious Yuuri is hilarious to me. He's so caught up in his own drama that he doesn't even know why Yurio is simmering.