I have a weird relationship with my sense of identity and image

So I've been suspecting this for a while now, and I think my latest few conversations with Nick (@Bel Capricorn) and OJ (@Vacuum Energy) have pretty much confirmed this. Pretty much every way I've felt about many things have confirmed this.

• A big part of how I define myself is by what I like. My icon makes it pretty obvious... even though those aren't my 4 main fandoms anymore, they were for a long time and I've grown very attached to this icon.
• Whenever a friend likes something, I feel like I have to like it too. I have to now See It and be Actively Involved in that fandom because my friend is and I'm in the same group as them, aren't I?
• No wonder I'm constantly overwhelmed with stuff to watch and read and look at and listen to!
• Whenever people say "it's okay to change interests" my brain has always countered with a "NO! IT'S NOT! THIS IS WHO YOU ARE!"
• I love explaining someone everything about me and trying to get them to understand me soo I can better understand the fundamentals of who I am.
• Goddammit. Literally as I was typing this someone mentioned Cool And New Web Comic in a Discord I'm in and they explained it to someone and mentioned the phrase "it's currently a phenomenon in the fandom". At which point my brain immediately went "OKAY NOW YOU HAVE TO READ IT NOW BECAUSE YOU'RE A HOMESTUCK AND IT'S THE THING THE HOMESTUCK FANDOM IS DOING SO YOU HAVE TO DO IT!" so I guess that one's confirmed.
• I find it really hard to roleplay as anyone who is not me. That's why I helped make the most recent Low-Spoons RP. Because my anxiety over roleplay goes past anything else I've experienced for some reason. The thought of being not-me scares me.
  • In theater class in High School I always played "the stereotypical nerd" because that's Who I Was (I wasn't, but I held that up as an ideal of What I Thought Of Myself). Being someone else... being seen as someone else... is unthinkable!
• I have consciously underperformed at some classes when I was in school because someone who did relatively good at those specific things (poetry writing, for instance) Was Not The Person That Is Me.
  • The "I Am" poems in middle school. Oh my god. The first one was "I am a boy who doesn't know what to write". 2 years later another teacher gave us that same assignment and this time it was "I am a Nintendo fan".
• Swearing. I swear all the time online but irl? With my parents? No way. They see me as swearless. They swear, and they want me to swear, and they're okay with swearing, but I have created this image of swearlessness and now I must abide by it.
• Sexuality. Same fucking thing. I have created this image of "not interested in finding anyone to date" (still true, I'm pretty sure I'm aromantic) but also "not finding people hot" which is just... not true anymore. But again, it's The Image Of Who I Am.
• ...
• Holy crap. All those times that I was worried about changing the way I acted... all the way back... ever since, like... kindergarten. What the fuck?! Okay I want to list them because holy shit this is weird. I've known they were related but I never thought they were related like this!
  • Raised bilingual but only spoke Spanish until age 7, first because ????... but then I started to just not do it because it was just something I didn't do! "I don't speak English, it's just not who I am"
  • Same with typical Aspie behaviors like answering the phone or saying hello or please or thank you. I knew people wanted me to do them long before I actually started doing them.
  • I can't even begin to describe how many other similar things happened. My embarrassment problems... just so much stuff!

That's what was so freeing about Kintsugi! Every time I heard "this is a place where you can be whoever you want"? That was terrifying.... the concept of choosing who I wanted to be was something I still don't even dare come close to. But a place where I could tell my brain "you can be yourself"? "You can do whatever comes naturally"? "Even if that self feels crappy"?

And having dealt with the image part of my problem, now I'm stuck with this shitty problem of clinging on to what I believe to be "my identity".

As OJ put it, I seem to be "Grabbing at bits of identity because of fear that [ I ] don't actually /have/ an identity underneath any of the labels".

She said it sounded like a trauma-result type of thing. Which is weird because there's visible symptoms up through kindergarten. I thought I had figured out what the source of that could be but I thought about it more and now I have no idea.

Anyway, I wanted to put this out there and any feedback would be greatly, greatly appreciated.

 

Bopping this up because reasons. Any and all feedback, even a Y/N on "is this weird?", would be appreciated.

 

Can't speak for how weird it is, but thought I'd show up and raise a hand for 'I relate to this'! Like, not so much these days, and not all of it, but to this day I totally get the 'must maintain the Brand(tm) or else' feelings right down to the swearing thing which is identical to my experience. And the explaining about myself thing!

Like, I know where my identity weirdfeels come from, but idk about you! Rather than 'what if there is no identity under the things I've claimed??' there is, 'what if there is no worthwhile identity under the stuff i'm clinging onto??' Which is an important distinction.

For me, a lot of it probably stems from being constantly low-key embarrassed/teased/etc for 'being who I am' when I was younger - be it my speech patterns or ways of interacting or the stuff I liked? And so the way I reacted was either to super-aggressively claim stuff I liked and make that Very Super Mega Important About Me Stuff (either in a 'YES i am part of the Majority as someone who likes this!' way or a 'well screw ALL of you, ~I~ like this thing SO THERE' way), or try to scrub out anything I thought that people thought was 'weird'?

So I guess like...it might be good to examine your relationship with shame/embarrassment as a thing, potentially? Because that's very much shaped my similar experiences of trying to perform to people's expectations of Who I Am.

Might be super off the mark though!

 

Ahhh thank you so much!! This is something I've wanted to hear from someone for the longest time! Thanks!

Oh yeah shame/embarrassment is definitely a thing I've had issues with in the past. Though I think... hmm... maybe as a kid I was treated as "special"?

It certainly sounds like the kind of thing constant lowkey teasing would do.

God I wish I could work through this and know the actual source. I'm worried that if I look too much for a thing I'll unconsciously fabricate an emotion lol.

 

I would encourage you to look into this, because I'm not sure "fabricating an emotion" is a real thing. Your problems are real, so it follows that there's something real at the center of them.

Also, if you were wondering, what you've described is definitely a real problem and not normal. It reminds me of a deep-running, sort of calcified version of impostor syndrome.

 

Hmm, I just don't want to think about something so much that I convince myself that "X is definitely the cause of the problem" because that can definitely happen. Fabricating emotions is a real thing because I've done it a ton in the past. Like when you get nostalgic for a time that you hated, what How I Met Your Mother called Graduation Glasses.

As for the impostor syndrome, yeah it does make sense... but it's a very weird case of it. Like, it's almost like a generalized version of it. I can definitely recognize it when it comes to fandoms and such but stuff like hiding who I am from my parents is... very different.

Thanks for the confirmation that it is, in fact, weird. God I wish I could figure it out.

 

*puts on pretend psychiatrist hat*
Okay so. I think the root of all this might be that you're defining yourself by your relationship to *other things*, and not by your own traits. It's fine to do a little bit of that (almost everybody ties their identity to the things they like in some fashion or another, see terms like "jock", "nerd", "foodie", "fashionista", etc) but if you do it to much, you end up not knowing yourself as well as you could. For what it's worth, I think this is pretty normal? Especially for "geeky" types who spend a lot of time interacting with media.

As a solution, might I suggest just... spending some time getting to know yourself in terms other than the kind of media you consume? What are some of the traits that define you? Are you skeptical or open-minded? Outgoing or reserved? Conscientious or absent-minded? Also maybe try to focus on the things you *do*. What do you create? Do you write, or make music, or draw? Are you a student? Do you work? What kind of work would you *like* to do?

"Identity" is a complex and multifaceted thing, and it can shift over time as well. A reserved teenager might turn into a extraverted adult! Someone who's gullible at age 30 might be more skeptical at age 50! Also maybe look into social identity theory? Especially Turner's Self-categorization Theory. (It's social psychology, so there's no real scientific rigor there, but it's a place to start looking for a more personal identity!)

Hope this helps, and isn't completely off the mark.

 

//raises hand
hi that sounds a lot like me and i am same hatting very hard and also would like to offer a hug.
especially the manufacturing emotions thing. maybe look into BPD? almost everything on this list pinged me there. especially if you read south's post, and like me, immediately have a panic reaction at the idea of trying to apply traits to myself rather than using labels.

 

*hugs* Sorry!

Actually *hugs* for everyone who wants them. Identity stuff is really hard to work through.

 

Not your fault! Brain bugs are pesky x3 Helpful post!

 

Ahahahahaha I don't do anything other than consume. Media, information, knowledge...
I am pathetic like that :P
I like Physics but I like to learn it, not study it.
I would *like* to work by spending months tackling some problem at my own pace with no rush and maybe take weeks to rest whenever I wanted.

HOLY SHIT I had no idea that was a thing that was a marker of BPD thank you so much for that!

 

So in order to get good at creating stuff? You have to consume a lot of that stuff. I don't know of a single good writer who doesn't read, or a single good director who never watches films. So in that sense, consuming media is a *part of being creative*.

Also I'm absolutely not going to say that a life spent consuming media is "pathetic" or somehow less valid and worth living than a life spent being creative. Just that creating things is a good way to figure out more about yourself and to build an identity for yourself.

That's another thing I mean to say! Identities are partially of our own creation! Sure you can't pick your interestes or your personality traits, but you can shape and mold them to your liking! I'm introverted by nature, but I've discovered I really enjoy talking to and trying to help out people online. I'm still an introvert, but if I'm helping other people I know that I can have interesting, not exhausting social interaction, and there we go! That's a personality trait that's part of my identity!

An interest in physics is a good place to start, actually! What is it about physics that you find so interesting? How would you like to learn more about it, ideally?

Also, I meant what kind of job you would like to have, but knowing your preferred work habits is also a thing that will be useful to you!

 

You have no idea how uncomfortable that sentence makes me feel. I'm sorry, brain bugs are really crappy, but like. It really does. It's part of the whole problem.

I know, but like, I don't ever feel like creating anything and I always hang around people who do and it always makes me feel like I'm a nobody for not creating stuff. But I just don't WANT to create stuff! I'm sorry, I just... don't! I don't know why! I just don't do it! But I don't and I'm sorry and I wish i did because then I could have an identity but I don't so I don't and it sucks!

I'm.....................
I don't know what to make of this, or how to apply it to my own life. I'm sorry.

Okay so what I like about Physics is that I want to figure out the order of the world. What structures it, how everything works, try to figure out why the universe is the way that it is. Biologists, chemists, and even experimental physicists look at how stuff interacts with other stuff in the real world. What I want to do is theoretical physics. Just picture everything as diagrams, graphs, equations... figure out simple and elegant solutions to the most basic building blocks of the universe and fill in that big gap that exists between what we know of particle physics and what we want to find out about the structure of the universe.

As for a job? I... don't care about anything enough to like for it to be a regular mandatory thing. It's why my grades recently took a dive in my classes, I just... I'm not... active enough at it. If I were to have a job it would probably be the that of the most lax theoretical physicist in the world.

 

@evilas ack, sorry. I'm honestly trying to help, not make you feel worse. Please let me know if you'd rather I didn't keep bugging you.

So. Creating things is not a necessary component of figuring out your identity. In fact, the fact that you don't like creating things can be a facet of your identity! The only thing I have to go off of is how I go about constructing my own identity, and that may not work for you.

Wanting to figure out how the universe works is a pretty damn noble goal! I wish I had the math for theoretical physics, honestly. It sounds like "physicist" could be a part of your identity?

As for jobs... I'm not going to be helpful finding a physics job. Except, how does teaching, like at the college level, sound to you?

 

No, not at all! I love people talking to me about me, I'm kinda self-centered like that lol

I... have no idea. I think if anything this would kind of add to the problem? Because like, suppose I defined myself as "not liking creating things" and then I find a thing I like creating. How do I stop myself from having an identity crisis and a panic attack?

And even if I never did find anything like that... I'm sorry to say this but I don't think you understand my problem. Like... if I don't like a thing, how do I connect with people who do like the thing? And if I define myself as "the guy who doesn't like the thing" then how do I like... Idk, how would I deal with that? Knowing that I could never be at the same level as my friends?

It already is! "Physics nerd" is a huge part of my identity but like, idk, that part has always been there. It's like... god, I'm sorry, I just don't think this is really helpful.

Not too good, even though it's pretty much expected of me. I get really nervous when speaking publicly because I'm always constantly terrified of getting something wrong and I'm always looking to the teacher to see if they approve of what I'm saying and it really sucks.

 

Oooooh! Okay, I think I get it now?

So your problem is that you define yourself by liking certain things, and if you stop liking those things that leads to a loss of identity? And also that if you *don't* like something you don't really connect with people who do?

Same haaaaaaaaaat. I have an English degree and *everyone* said I needed to teach with it. So naturally I got a job as a paralegal. Teaching scares the crap out if me.

 

YES! Exactly that!

 

For the first part, I feel like if ceasing to like something causes loss of identity, then a solution is either to find things you identify with that are so broad you won't ever stop liking them (eg "I am a fan of character driven RPGs." instead of "I am a fan of Undertale."). Or you could think about what you like in the specific series, the traits of certain characters, the settings, specific plot events, and hook on to those to identify with? (eg, "I identify with Papyrus' endless optimism and never-give-up attitude." Vs "I like Papyrus.") That way you can find the sorts of character traits that you find admirable/valuable and work from there?

For the second part... I don't know? I don't like everything my friends like, but we do have things in common we enjoy. I think if you have nothing in common with someone that you can talk about, then it's hard to be friends with them. Have you tried asking what it is they like about the things they like that you don't, to try and see if you have more common ground? Or were you using "like" in a more general sense, as in asking how to be friends with people that are, say, more into sports and cars than videogames and cartoons?

 

It was more... the former. As in, say, I'm in the Kintsugi Skypechat and suddenly 2 people start talking about this author I've never read. I immediately feel crappy because I feel left out and now I NEED to read this author to be a Proper Part Of The Same Group They're In.
...because if I'm not in their group, then what am I?

Like Paintcat said, that's starting to sound a lot like a fucked-up version of impostor syndrome.

Only problem is, I can only do so much.

I can deal with it if I genuinely don't care for the topic (like, say, reading manga. I just don't care about it that much), but most other things are... well, it's almost impossible to live with this.

EDIT: Also, if I start defining myself as "a fan of character-driven RPGs" then I'd need to start looking for ALL the character-driven RPGs and become a fan of ALL of them in order to be able to truly define myself as "a fan of character-driven RPGs"

I'm like the stereotypical shitty hipster fandom gatekeeper, only the only person I'm judging is myself.

 

Are you by any chance diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder? Because the "I must know this thing to fit in and if i don't I'm *nothing*" sounds pretty similar to my "You have to always be right always otherwise you're an idiot and *worthless*". A combination of black and white thinking and severe negative self-talk. One of my shrinks used to call it "the tiny dictator that lives in your head", which helped me to externalize all those negative thoughts and build my sense of self-worth back up by being more gentle with myself.

TL;DR: Stop beating yourself up. If you wouldn't treat a friend that way, don't treat yourself that way.