NSFW RP: consent, minors, and other boundaries

it's less the off-camera sex in particular part and more 'minor and adult engaged in a roleplay of a relationship that's primarily sexual in nature' part. I tried to present everything I said on that in a way that would educate the people who didn't realize it was a really important boundary. And also...I'm...also autistic....like, I get that concern but sometimes it comes across as saying 'why do you expect autistic people to know about consent'. Which I understand isn't what you're saying, but it kinda made me bristle a bit anyway and if you had meant it like that would be pretty inherently portraying autistic peeps as infantile and unable to learn. Which, like, i don't need to explain to you obvs why that would also suck super hard.

 

Ok I´m just gonna say I was only ever talking about off camera sex, such as might happen in a relationship between to characters, which is kept off camera so one does not have to bend the plot to make it never happen, and can continue playing the Only romantic and not sexual interactions.
There´s a difference between roleplay with the sex intentionally left offside, and primarily sexual roleplay and Im not ok mixing those two up.

 

I was talking in this thread about two distinct things and in my reply to morven was talking about which of the two is the More Immediately Not Okay One that i would prefer people knew was immediately not okay. I'm sorry for the confusion there Cody, I'm super tired and wrung out.

 

God even that was kind of garbled. I should hve continued tapping out. Hi, sorry, I'm still triggered p damn hard and thus not as eloquent as usual, I apologize for any confusion and would just say to read back over what i said earlier before i was triggered in order to get my position on things and what i meant.

 

Please consider stepping out. You´re not doing yourself any favours and we can get this sorted without you. Own mask and all.

 

I expect autistic people to know about consent or be able to learn it. My issue is solely with expecting people to know the exact ruleset in use when it isn't stated and isn't part of basic consent. People come from very different RP backgrounds that have different ideas of the way to do it.

 

Ye, i understand that.

 

... Okay, so, that raises another question that is, in fact, something I'm not sure about the answer of.
Basically: what are the pros and cons of allowing a minor player to RP a sexual relationship with an adult player, if the sex isn't actually written down at least publicly?

 

I'm not sure there are any pros that aren't also present when two minors (or people very close in age, 17.9 and 18.1) do shippy collaborative writing. The upsides of shippy collaborative writing are the same regardless of who you're doing it with. It's fun. Sometimes you want Dick and Jane to smooch.

There are, however, plenty of cons that are present when there is an adult or community of adults positioning themselves as Safe To Talk About Explicit Sex With regarding a minor or community of minors. Especially when that's already the norm in a given space, and any minors that don't conform to it are left feeling othered or prudish.

 

are we talking about players here or characters. Most people don't actually date their rp partners ime.

I mean, if you say 'no romance because Risk of Sex' you'll have kids lying (which they will anyway). Like, the problem is that all romantic rp is going to have some kind of fade to black that can be implied to be sex (Even if it's not). This is the problem I was trying to highlight earlier: there are people here from various upbringings and experience who are approaching this from various points of view. No one is defining terms (other than what some of us tried to do earlier) or boarders. How do I know if I'm crossing someone's boundary if it's not stated? I can't.

This whole conversation is... Look, the implication that people are playing themselves instead of characters is really gross especially for those of us who have been accused of that. Who here read my old abuse thread? The one where I talked about my ex claiming I raped her because I was rping sex with her (Even if it was all fade to black, and she asked for more of it than I did at the time) with a character she claimed was a self insert? Yeah. See my problem?

Thing is, it does happen. People like that exist. They're gross but they're also a minority. It's worthwhile to watch for them but it's also like saying all cars are bad evil because some people use them to run other people over. This is why we were working on definitions, boundaries, communication, guidelines, ect a little earlier in this thread and why it has utterly infuriated me that this keeps cycling around like this. You can't make guidelines on 'implied'. I could say that PR implied that he hated me by how he said something, but the implication is not the real meaning of the thing. My view of what was implied is not going to always be logical or anywhere near the truth.

This is also very valid but I feel like it's competing access needs, you know? Some people get triggered by being told they can't be sexual at all (due to trauma), just like minors (and some adults) who don't like talk of sex feel othered / prudish when they're shut down. For example, the SPR has been pretty clean of sexual things lately other than previously mentioned FTB / Timeskips because of a conversation about that. It is a problem! It's also a competing access problem that I think will be solved by splitting off a 18+ section.

As for pro / con on fading to black with minors: First one must define at which point it's not ok. As stated earlier, communication is key. The pro is being able to make two characters kiss, and generally that's where it ends? At least for me, once the scene ends it's over. Alternatively the pro is being able to play out romantic scenes without playing out the sex. I know there's a moral kerfuffle about this, which is part of the problem. Sure, there are predators out there who use that shit to ease kids into rping smut with them and then trade information and Bad Shit (tm) happens.

But like... That's why communication is important, and respect of boundaries, and defining boundaries. I was always taught to never trust adults online as a kid since they could be anyone, and I was taught that smutting with adults was dangerous (for you and the adult). Did I care? No, but I was a shit. I get that some people have trouble enforcing boundaries, but I can't enforce a boundary FOR someone unless I'm told (Like, age listings which is being done). Fading to black may BE the boundary a minor presents, as it may be to them not equal to sex at all but just a way to skip over it and do the other fun relationship stuff. Fading to black / timeskipping or whatever you want to call it.

Also are we defining minor as purely under the age of 18? Or are we defining it as under the age of 20 / 21? I feel like we're going with the former, but I honestly just want to be clear. At least in Florida there is something called a 'young adult exception', but like Khan pointed out it is an over-state-lines thing.

I'm going to say it again, however: Your safest bet is locking all rp behind 18+. Your second safest is the 18+ / NSFW forum idea, though I vote for calling it 18+ because NSFW is a very... vague... term.

 

At that point I´d point out the difference between RP and reality again. RP is, in the end collaborative storytelling. Just because my characters are involved with someone does not mean I am in any way shape or form. This is kinda really important. Even if it´s more directly invovled than passively reading a book, it is still fictional. So not a kid Rping their character dating an adults character is in no way shape or form in a relationship with that adult. That is simply not what is happening.

 

Seriously seebs, the difference between the character and the player has been pointed out multiple times b< multiple people who actually play in forum RP, something you do not. Please listen to us, we know what we´re talking about.

 

I RP. I also disagree.

A minor roleplaying a romantic or sexual relationship with an adult still communicates with that adult, regularly interacts with them, presumably trusts them enough to regularly communicate and interact, and writes collaborative romantic or sexual fiction with them.

That minor is receiving regular replies in which an adult is writing tailor-made romantic or sexual fiction for that minor, and that minor is providing it in return. Which means there is an adult on the other end of the screen, receiving messages containing this minor's descriptions of romantic or sexual advances.

 

and now we is into being scared of "what-ifs" thinking.
Don't go there, @seebs - it leads to the anti-rabbit-hole of "everything is evil and should be banned!"

 

There is never a situation in which writing sex with a minor, as an adult, is okay. The relative publicity of the thing is not the issue here.

 

I scared myself by rereading that. No - that is NOT a reasonable thought pattern

 

Ok to clarify, I am not saying it never happens. I have a huge problem with it being assumed as the basic standard, because it is something people generally try to warn against and limit, precisely Because of the dangers.
Hell I should fucking know, I got fairly damanged by it happening to me.
And I would be quite happy with say, there being some material written to point this out to younger RPers to help them not fall into that trap.
I´m not ok with this being assumed as the standard and basis by which all RP shall be judged.

To clarify, I am 100% not ok with writing sex with a minor. A fade to black imo is not writing sex because no sex is being written. And also to clarify things should definitely go into the fade to black long before it gets to actual sex territory of thers a minor involved.
Less towards you Pr, more just to make it clear where i stand with that.