NSFW RP: consent, minors, and other boundaries

yeah pretty much, i just feel like what i'm seeing from Mendacity in particular is trying to say that finding unrequited romance/sex aimed at an NR/NS character to be a violation of consent+people having mentioned that all of this is especially uncomfortable because of how many ocs-who-appear-to-be thinly-veiled self-inserts or otherwise without much separation from their rper+creating porn with minors is not okay just because they're Characters, because you* an adult are creating porn with a minor=all characters are self-inserts, all sex between characters is sex between their players, consent being an issue means it's sex because Actual Sex is the only situation in which you need consent, something something people accusing their spouse of infidelity by implication????

that's what i'm gathering here and it's irritating

also did anyone say minors are only allowed to be NR because Risk of Sex??? did i miss something here

*general you

 

I'm... genuinely having trouble parsing what you're trying to say there?

 

I am still waiting for the markers for violence, because I am ok with anything consensual within the bounds of the environments I'm in voluntarily--I don't go to Dead Dove RP. But I could literally not fucking handle SPR for a really long time due to the fact that people were circumventing the "rave magic prevents abuse/violence" thing by bringing their own punching bag characters that they could abuse.

Sexual content is not the only kind of content that can take an abusive form.

I kind of think that as simple as having this info in taglines seems, it's going to work better if people put it in their character descriptions and people get into the habit of reading those. Because a lot of people seem to have trouble expressing their boundaries in 3-4 letter acronyms. I sure can't figure it out in the space I'm allowed, particularly given that there are RPs that also require you to put other information in that tiny space. (WT requires classpects for any characters that aren't essentially player-controlled NPCs.)

 

I agree with the violence thing.

The whole idea that sex is somehow inherently more dangerous a thing to expose a minor to than violence is 100% a cultural thing and there are most certainly cultures/countries were sexual things get a lot less brow lift than blood or violence might and I would appreciate if we didn't assume that 'sex is worse than violence' is a universal constant and if anything slap down violence markers too.

 

Er, that's one style of RP, but there are many styles.

A lot of the miscommunications I've seen on Kintsugi about RP have to do with style mismatches.

There are RPs that are more like tabletop, where the DM/mod has a lot more control than that and can in fact tell you that certain kinds of RP are just not permitted, and there are good reasons for this.

I don't let people sexually harass each other in my games, for example, because even if both players are having fun, I as the moderator and the other players have to watch that, and no.

Unrequited romance is a difficult call for a gamemaster to make because you never know how well the person playing the character with the crush really understands that it is NEVER going to be requited.

 

What the hell are you talking about?
Can I, as someone with literal brain damage and parsing issues, request you break that up? Because the only two things that I can assume from what you're saying as you are saying it are as follows:

1. That I'm saying that I think roleplayed sex with a minor is ok? Which... I don't. At all. That I also think that consent is only needed in irl sex as well.
2. That my views align with the idea of all sexual rp being self insert rp (Which it's not).

You are legitimately going to have to state what you mean in the most basic terms because I have literal brain damage and it's hard for me to parse things sometimes. I'm saying this again because it is incredibly important.

I mentioned the story I did, which was abuse I faced from an ex girlfriend whom literally went around behind my back and told everyone that I hated them for measure, because it colors my view of the situation just like everyone's past does.

Also the question wasn't accusing PR of infidelity, it was Petra pointing out how what Seebs was saying could sound. I also, notably, have said nothing about it.

You would have to find the list that has been made for the rules, however, on that final bit. I'm pretty sure it was already put in them.

 

It's not just minors who are harmed by exposure to violent content. Or unwanted sexual content.

Frankly, there are very good legal reasons why we need to be clear on what is allowable where minors are concerned. But when adults who were abused as children have to read descriptions of ongoing present tense child abuse happening right in front of their characters (and I don't care if the character committing it is underage, it's ridiculous to say "we're both kids" when a 15 year old is beating up a 2 year old) that's also not okay.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@seebs. My objection to your disinclination for "rules" is that I dislike feeling that I am living in a culture of constant scrutiny where people who are not even involved with a ginormous project (40K posts!!!) get to make criticisms about it based on going over a couple of posts or even some hearsay, and I'm expected to have time to listen and care about it, and spoons to deal with that at the drop of a hat, on someone else's schedule, even if someone decides they want to start a conversation with me about it in public where even people I know have long-standing grudges against me are invited to participate. If this were not a holiday weekend, I'd be considering taking tomorrow off from work for mental health reasons just because of the effect this plus the heat wave is having on me.

I am planning to move WT into the 18+ forum if there are no clear rules put in place about the involvement of minors even though it is not a porny game.

I hate doing this to Valenorn. But I need to be able to continue saying "here are the rules, if you don't like them, don't ask to be invited" rather than having to worry every day about who is reading my threads, which have over 40000 posts in them, and looking at something out of context and expecting me to take time out of my life and explain to them why it is okay for me and my players to continue doing what works for us. I have a job and someday I'd like to have a meatspace social life again. I don't have time to justify and defend anything and everything in my game at the drop of a hat to anyone who just happens by. So I can't have minors in my game any more unless there are rules about what they are, and are not, allowed to do.

I'm fine with "no ships between adult-played characters and minor-played characters".

I'm not so fine with "no spoiler-tagged discussions of biology (or any other potentially difficult topic) in places where minors might read them unless you ask first" because I'm running a game about a goddamn interdimensional war that has characters who are decent people that came from universes where modern concepts of sapient rights aren't even a thing in it. Like Alternia and Rathillien. And also characters of less objective decency who still object to the destruction of their homes and biospheres. So if that's the rule, clearly there need to not be minors.

It's a game that involves a bunch of characters who, while they don't engage in onscreen Full-Sex-Scenes, do talk continually about science, their abuse histories and their cultural clashes and I'm 8000% done with trying to figure out what someone who's just passing through might find offensive. I don't have the anxiety spoons to deal with that shit.

I am not neurotypical. I do not deal well with guess culture. When unexpected people yell at me out of the blue, I fucking yell back, because I grew up in an emotional war zone and I have paranoid ideation, so maybe people, don't just pop up and yell at me or demand that I explain myself in a goddamn site policy thread. I need to have a certain amount of spoons and warning to deal with public personal attacks from multiple sources when I'm not expecting them because I'm a fucking sapient ape, not a godlike transhuman intelligence, at least not yet.

I'm just as fucked up as anyone else on this site and the fact that I have been fucked up longer than many of the rest of you does not make me less fucked up.

Site policy threads should be about what site policy should be. We're all spergs. I guarantee that even though you are autistic, there is something you think should be obvious to everyone that at least 10% of the rest of us autists do not even know.

 

fair enough. i'm sick and haven't slept much or eaten today, and am pretty out of it, so i'm probably not making much sense right now (and i suspect am missing a page of discussion every now and then by accident). sorry.

 

Take care of yourself, okay? The thread will still be around in a few days, and your health comes first.

 

A thing to keep in mind.

Unless you are posting in a very limited number of places here, any member can read your posts. You are posting in public. Keep in mind when you post that just about any member can read it.

 

Chiomi and the Liminal Spaces: The Nightmare Mall

 

I'm aware of that! That's not the problem. I like the ability to reach lots of people who might potentially enjoy our content.

The problem is people thinking that they have a say about it just because they can read it, and that they have enough of a say to have a right to expect a polite, nuanced explanation of things on their schedule, even if they're not polite and nuanced about asking.

I run THIS RP on Kintsugi because that's where it accidentally a thing.

But I keep RPing on Kintsugi because I don't expect this LiveJournal/Tumblr-type behaviour.

Read this: https://fanlore.org/wiki/Strikethrough_and_Boldthrough

Now: I was ataniell93. (And azurelunatic is one of my very close friends.)

Any time this topic comes up, which I guess most people here didn't know, I get this sick feeling in my stomach of jesus fuck not this again.

ETA: And honestly, what bothers me the most about the expectation that I be willing to provide these polite, nuanced explanations on demand no matter how rude the request is, is the possibility that a mod's decision about me and my game will be based NOT on whether I'm in compliance with clear and understandable guidelines, but rather upon how "dismissive" or "receptive" I am to unsolicited criticism from uninvolved parties no matter how well or how badly they understand the situation or are willing to educate themselves about it.

That's CRAZY MAKING. Sometimes, if a lot of people think something they don't know very much about is bad, it's not because the majority is always or even usually right, it's because ignorance about a situation and emotional responses to difficult topics don't lend themselves well to understanding what is actually happening.

 

if it's worth anything: There are characters I felt unsafe bringing to Kintsugi due to the lack of violence warning stuff. I was never sure if it was kosher to warn for it, or if that counted enough, because what if I triggered someone?

even purely for a categorization / preventing people's triggers thing I agree that it would help!

 

i mentioned violence that would b okay to rp w minors vs violence that wouldn't as an additional sfw vs nsfw a while back here, idk who else did, i don't have my glasses

Extreme violence would also count as nsfw. So maybe a tag for No Extreme Violence (NEV)?
*eta to correct acronym, no glasses >.>;

 

Possible idea?

NV - no violence / Tag not needed possibly? Unless you're asking for no violence
CV - Cartoon Violence
V - Greater than Cartoon less than moderate. Just Basic Violence, your average level.
MV - Moderate Violence
RV - Realistic Violence
EV - Extreme Violence

Or just use the ESRB rating scale for violence only (Or possibly as a combined. No, I will never stop pointing out that rating scales make life easier).

As for individuals not wanting say, blood, isn't that more of a communication thing than a 'thar be violence here'?

 

Seebs, it's your goddamn site. You are perfectly capable of finding out that I have never knowingly actually had a private conversation with any minors on this site except for the one I am currently having with Valenorn about why he might have to leave WT.

You could have come to me at any time after you became concerned and asked me what was going on. You know, that very basic thing where you ask for the other side of the story and actually listen without prejudice? But you chose to address it here instead, after and while discussing it at length in a chat that other friends of mine were invited to with a known suicide baiter and a person who once tried to trip me into a paranoid spiral and has been on perma-ignore on my end ever since. You have not handled this in anything approaching a remotely fair manner. Don't think I'm going to be cool with that any time soon. And I have no logical reason, with or without paranoid ideation, to expect that scrutiny from some of the people you listen to, in preference to me, will be well-intentioned.

And yes, move my subforum to the 18+ thread.