It's more explicit in the second film and very, very much so in the novels. So, no, they're incorrect that people are 'just reading things into the films'. Especially when half of being an informed watcher of film who makes intelligent discussion is reading things into film.
I see, thank you. I wasn't sure if they made it more explicit in the second film. I agree reading things into film is important, it's just as far as the first film I wasn't sure what its intents were yet (and keep in mind I'm not too deep in Star Wars fandom, partially because the discourse is intimidating to me). As far as fandom gripes, really, I have gripes regarding Star Wars discourse. It's frustrating for me because I have real life friends who hate Kylo. A month or so back I walked into a room where the second film was playing and I was like 'ah I'll leave this room I don't want spoilers' and they were like 'oh it's just Kyle Ron stuff do you really care', and it puts me in this predicament of... Sure, he's not my favourite but I'm open to caring about Kylo Ren? Am I losing some sort of credit by admitting I care about Kylo Ren's plot and am interested where they go with it? So I end up in the background of real life friend conversations with very little context, so I have friends say things like 'oh that character you like isn't at all like kylo (who I hate)', but I haven't actually watched the second film yet so I just am like... awkward smile? I don't know how to respond because I don't have all the info. I don't want to agree but I don't want to look like I'm being contrary and stanning for a character who I realistically don't have all the available information about. I'm also feeling a bit of an issue where... a lot of people point out Kylo is white and overrated, and it seems like... its being treated as an issue of racism to like Kylo? Leaves me in a bit of a predicament, because I... kind of just like antagonists generally and with the threads Kylo has going on? Anyway I didn't think I'd have so much to complain about re: Kylo because I don't even know everything but I do. I feel like a lot of people pick on his nd qualities when discussing why he should be hated and idk. Feels bad. I didn't gravitate towards him but people are, on a whole, so nasty about him that I feel an instinct to at least defend parts I feel people are inaccurate about. But I'm not capable of that yet because the idea I'd have to defend this character potentially from inaccurate readings makes me too intimidated to watch the second movie... Speaking as to Fandom Gripes, I remember I really loved Rogue One and was shocked when everyone hated the shit out of Jyn Erso... I was really into Rogue One, but then I had a hard time finding blogs that didn't act like Jyn was the devil or sort of? Read hugely overly malicious intentions into her actions.
Surprisingly, I have not seen much Discourse at all in Wild Kratts fandom. It's not just a kids' show, it's a kids' show on PBS. But the closest thing I've seen to Discourse is the one or two people who freak out when they learn that Krattcest exists, which is understandable in WK fandom because the Kratt Brothers characters are written by and based on the real-life Kratt Brothers, who are long term married to ladies and have children--writing about real people committing incest is kinda rude!
That is exactly how I feel about a pretty huge proportion of the Kylo Ren wank. Especially after TLJ. Spoiler: I guess spoiler-ish Like, it's pretty explicit that a lot of his backstory boils down to "well-meaning parental figures had absolutely no idea how to deal with a kid who had problems they weren't prepared for and he could tell they were afraid of him and didn't understand him," so when I see people smugly saying that he deserved to be hurt by authority figures he trusted because he grew up to be a villain I'm just.
That’s probably not intentionally crappy of them but still pretty crappy. Like ideally, social grace involves giving people information you think might be relevant to their decision while still respecting their choice and especially prioritizing their stated concerns. What they’re doing is implying that you should change your mind because your concerns ought to be irrelevant in this case, and failure to do so will bring judgment upon you. That’s rather thoughtless of them. If you like, you could reiterate the original concern that they have attempted to gloss over. You just really would prefer to avoid spoilers. Yes, all of them. Because that’s how you like to watch movies. As much as they’re putting you on the defensive here, it sounds at least from here like people who may seek consensus because they aren’t sure how to deal with dissent. That may be why they’re so insistent on getting you to agree with them before you’ve even seen the damn film, and why they really don’t want you to opt out of the conversation. If you disagree, you’re in a position that’s at least as powerful as it is precarious. You don’t need to have a well reasoned rebuttal. All you need is doubt. “I’m not so sure about that,” is a Power Move.
Adam Driver's looks make me happy. I have a similar profile (especially the big nose), and the older I get the less self-conscious I get, but it can still be hard when people insult me about it to feel confident. Seeing someone on the screen who kinda looks like me is super exciting! Also his big ears are adorable!
I know people who look like him! As in, like, I am pretty sure both the boys I grew up with in my Hebrew class had ears like that and at least one of them had the same nose. So, yeah, it makes me :/ as well to see people slamming him over his looks. Because no? He looks fine, he looks like the dude everyone assumed I was going to hook up with up until they realized that no, I regard him (at best) as being like a sibling.
@LadyNighteyes Yeah, I see a lot of discourse that I call 'retroactive deserved punishment'. Like, a character turns out to be a pretty bad person because of awful things done to them, but fandom says they deserve all those awful things happening to them because they're a bad person... But this person wouldn't be so bitter and mean if these horrible things hadn't happened to them and created huge trauma walls for them! It's a frustrating trend in general because it just seems to... ignore trauma can have horrible warping effects on a person and regardless of if theyre 'bad' they never deserved such trauma. @Verily At the time I just reiterated 'I really want to avoid spoilers' and ended up leaving the room (sounds dramatic, but it wasn't at all). 'A position as powerful as it is precarious' is a very interesting phrase to me. I'm going to keep that in mind and ruminate over it.
Yeah. I think in Kylo's case, I think a lot of it is also this sort of pattern of... assuming you know everything about a character right from the start, basically? Like, a lot of people formed an impression of Kylo Ren as "privileged whiny white male who shot up a school because he was mad at his parents" based on the first movie that was super not accurate to what they're meaning his character to be overall, and got mad when the movies' version wasn't their version (which I honestly don't think held up well under analysis even if you were only looking at TFA without any of the supplemental materials). (Though the funniest part of people stanning for Anakin in connection to Kylo, to me, is that I'm 100% sure Kylo Ren would agree with them about Anakin. Spoiler You can't tell me his Darth Vader fixation doesn't have a LOT to do with the fact that his granddad got screwed over by the Jedi Order (who didn't make even the most minimal effort to take care of his needs while using his raw power as a weapon to further their ends) and ended up going Dark and shattering the entire system that used him as a tool. Like, Kylo's going, "We were both abused and betrayed by Jedi. If I could master the Dark the way he did, I could get revenge on the people who hurt me, the same way he did." )
Yeah, there's folks that say Kylo stans Vader because he doesn't get Anakin and only sees Vader as this sorta shallow power fantasy, but like. Nah tho. Dude like fessed up to feeling uncertain and pulled towards the light and junk to his fucking granddad effigy and asked Anakin to help him get his shit under control. That's not the kinda thing you confess to your super cool macho manly man power fantasy icon, that's stuff you say to someone who you think can relate to your squishy uncomfortable feels.
The 'Kaguya was the villain all along and Alhama'at was the true protagonist!' hot takes are so terrible. They aren't even fucking lore accurate, first off. Reiya hesitates telling Gill shit because he literally becomes a universe destroying god emperor, tries to kill her kid, and murders her wife. The only reason he gets told anything is because Reiya needs to make extra super certain that she's prevented Gill from becoming Alhama'at. also kaguya is like 14 years old at fucking most She is a literal child? Whose mother was murdered in front of her and then she got told by multiple people that it was all her fault her mom had to die! Like, yes, almost destroying all of reality is a pretty shitty thing to do but you're expecting an emotional maturity from a child that not even most adults can have. She even turns good again too after making a good future thanks to the meddling of her mothers. how are you people so bad at reading stories and why are you so hype about defending child murder
caboose from rvb isn't a child, a dog, a dispenser of supreme wisdom, a saint or a plot device, dammit caboose is a disabled adult human with feelings about things and complex characterization
It bums me out that people fail at this after the canon does such a good job with it, too rvb is a font of unexpected quality
it especially bums me out 'cause people think those infantilized and dehumanizing headcanons are really cute, and they are how fandom people outside of the rvb fandom often get introduced to caboose, in like rp and stuff
someone on the rvb tag just said that washington doesn't have much characterization and isn't interesting, and to that, i can only say "WRONG." i mean, "interesting" is subjective and washington does get a lot of the fandom's attention but he has a lot of characterization, dammit so, can the rvb fandom just stop with the bad hot takes, please?
Hiveswap canon is pissing me off by not fitting a fan theory and I know that's silly but it's still annoying. I really loved the fan theory that, as Xefros and Dammek's aspects were Rage and Blood, Joey and Jude would be Doom and Mind and between them they would fill up the four classes that the humans in Homestuck didn't fill (Sylph, Mage, Bard, and Thief). On really trying to analyse them they don't really seem to fit that and it's annoying me because FUCK YOU ANTI-COMPLETIONIST GAME I WANTED THE FULL SET
when i'd love a kink/trope/whatever but people often bring it up as the Superior Alternative to another kink/trope/whatever i love, i end up annoyed with the "Superior Alternative" trope as a result, and i hate it. 'cause, like, i'd love the kink/trope/whatever if i didn't feel like i had an obligation to like it 'cause it's Obviously Superior and i was just being trash by liking my self-indulgent kink/trope/whatever. and trust me, i've gotten this feeling a lot and it sucks. my id doesn't have to be perfect, dammit! i don't owe anyone that! it can just be what it is, and if you don't like it, don't read!
If I'm among the ones who made you feel that way, I'm sorry. I know the feeling of having people look down on stuff you like.
