TFs: DARE TO BE STUPID

Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by itsAlana, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. rigel

    rigel in a line of late afternoon sun

    cw ableist language in the link , abuse cw for this whole post

    so alex milne made an interesting few tweets about like. the way he ships pharma/ratchet (re. pharma is so obsessive because hes traumatized and ratchet was abusive towards him, possibily unknowingly) and everyone on my tl is like "thats a horrible take, i hope jro doesnt get people mad at him over this. i hope he tells milne not to say these things" when like. thats just how he ships it? he didnt say everyone ELSE has to agree with him, he was just telling everyone how he liked to see it hdjddsnxhdnv

    either way i replied and told him i found that really interesting! i liked the idea bc like. ratchet is kind of a dick specifically to drift abt drifts religious kick and acts like drift shouldnt be religious bc he isnt.

    ANYWAYS. i liked his take. it makes ratchets inability to say goodbye even like. harder i think. and the fallout definitely would have made it easier for tarn to do what he did!
     
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  2. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    I'M SCREAMING, this is such a fantastic take, I love it!!!! Because, like, it's super consistent with Ratchet's characterization, but also other parts of the story that aren't even about Ratchet directly?

    Ratchet is... awkward about a lot of softer social stuff, like he can do a bedside manner, but one of the main points of issue 40 is how bad Ratchet is about a lot of basic friendship procedures. Which is where they even specifically bring up how he totally peaced out without saying goodbye while Pharma was trying to ask him about important career advice, which, cold. And whether or not Ratchet would have advised him to take the job or not, however it turned out, ignoring the question altogether is probably one of the most :c responses to get when you're trying to ask someone about that.

    Especially with how proud Pharma is? 'I am setting aside my pride enough to ask you a question about what I should do because I trust you and your experience' [cricket noises]. And no matter what Ratchet would have said, Pharma accepted the job and ended up on Delphi for a long-ass time being next-door neighbors with the DJD like oh my GOD if that happened to me, I'd resent Ratchet too?

    And like you said, when Ratchet is annoyed by Drift being religious, he comes down hard and mean about it. Drift tried to take them to Crystal City, only to find the whole city missing, and obviously that's a rough time, and Ratchet is probably stressed too, but he keeps prodding at the religion thing until Drift is almost ready to hit back, and Whirl jumps in to redirect impending violence towards himself.

    But like, with what we see in the shadowplay arc, past and present, what Ratchet did for Drift and said to him meant a lot to Drift, whether you take it in a shippy way or not. Drift was pretty much at the bottom of the social ladder without prospects and in a pretty sorry state in the short and long term, and Ratchet gave him free medical treatment, advice for turning his life around, and told him he had potential. Drift carried that encouragement with him for millions of years, and says he still thinks about it. I tend to read Drift as... generally hungry for approval, and aware of how fragile his position as an autobot is, and the weight of the past that he's asking other people to look beyond. There's stuff like him playing bait for insecticons in phase one that leaves me all :(((( or how he reacts to taking the fall for rodimus in mtme, or even being like 'haha, djd? why would I worry about the djd?' when his actual thoughts are more like 'if they come for me, please please please kill me first'.

    And in terms of how ugly Drift's past as Deadlock is for autobots in general, I think I've written before about how much more painful it is in terms of Ratchet specifically. Because he helped save Drift's life and told him he could make something of himself, and Drift took those words and went and grew up to be Deadlock. Ratchet's a medic to the bone, and Drift was one of the biggest killers of the war. His break from the Decepticons came because he was too enthusiastic about killing autobots. Especially with them both remembering Ratchet saving his life, that's got to be some extra painful knowledge for the both of them in the present. If Drift is hungry for approval, it makes him a lot of sense for him to be hungry for Ratchet's approval, specifically, and it makes him a lot of sense to feel extra bad about that, given how his past played out.

    The angle for Pharma is a lot different, but it still sets up a stage where Pharma has a ton of reason to care about Ratchet, specifically, even before taking anything shippy into consideration. Because Ratchet was at the top as far as doctors went well before the war. He was the boss doctor in the Shadowplay arc, which means he's probably been at the top of his game for a while. Pharma might be a vain ass, but he's also a very good doctor, and he... strikes me as the kind of person who wants recognition of that fact. Not general adoration, not praise that he doesn't deserve, but recognition of just how good he is from the people who have the knowledge to say that thing with authority. And Ratchet, like... YEAH. Approval from Ratchet, as a doctor, would potentially mean more coming from him than from anyone else. But Ratchet isn't so good at gentle unless you're a patient, and if he's not being gentle, he's very demanding, very perfectionist, plenty vocal about what's wrong, and why would he need to make a point about the things that are going specifically right?

    Smash cut to Rodimus and Optimus. Different personalities in play, different thing they care about, but the thoughtlessly distant authority figure, who isn't necessarily... withholding approval, he just never thinks to provide it, that sounds real familiar. Rodimus obviously admires Optimus, and Optimus thinks well enough of him. But Optimus brushes him off when Rodimus tries to go for him for advice, or thoughtlessly takes over if he decides that 'actually i'm in charge now', and he stays just close enough that Rodimus keeps chasing his approval but never reaches out enough to make the dynamic healthy and balanced. Rodimus can be a leader, he's not perfect, but he tries hard, but when Optimus brushes him off or dismisses him, it sends him into an emotional tailspin that makes it harder for him to keep going, or knocks him off course. It's a totally understandable thing.

    (actually, honestly, comparing the different high-ranking officers across both factions of the war would be a pretty fascinating thing. everyone is screwed up good, but I feel like there's a disproportionate number of officers who have failure modes in this direction. ratchet being a demanding perfectionist. optimus being emotionally distant. prowl's disconnect and eventual meltdown. megatron's treatment of starscream. starscream's treatment of everyone who tries to play nice with him. shockwave's.... shockwave. ultra magnus's struggle to connect. even soundwave, before DC happened and he pulled back and reevaluated and went to establish a space commune)

    OR. The first thing I thought of. When Cyclonus went to ask Whirl about Tailgate and Whirl laughed in his face about the idea that he deserves anything from Tailgate, or can expect anything from Tailgate. 'What can he expect from you except your guaranteed disapproval and a face like a funeral?' Like, that could literally be about Ratchet in the early parts of the series. And it's a totally reasonable thing for Whirl to say to Cyclonus, because Tailgate might like him, but Cyclonus hasn't done much to earn or justify that, it's more of a credit to how sweet Tailgate is than anything Cyclonus is responsible for. It's equally reasonable to apply that same consideration to Ratchet.

    And!! I think that one, it's fascinating and great how much character growth Ratchet has in the series without even needing to change much about who he is, or what he thinks. He's still a grouchy skeptic even in the most recent issues, but since he went off to find Drift and came back, he's just the tiniest bit more gentle about interpersonal issues. He knows how to be kind when it's about bedside manner, his attitude turnaround on Delphi when Drift got sick was really impressive, but now he's being patient and dialing back the cutting remarks in the rest of his life too. Drift says a number of reverent religious thing in LL, whether it's about the functionist visions, or about dude this is totally the afterspark, and Ratchet doesn't give an inch in terms of being a skeptic, but he's also not being an ass about 'you must be an idiot if you actually believe that'.

    But in looking at the wider story and seeing what did that, I honestly think credit goes to Pharma and Drift. Because what happened with Pharma? Ratchet keeps his cool, but that is an ugly, UGLY surprise to trip across. He went there to make Pharma chief autobot medical officer, and instead finds his old old friend is collaborating with the DJD, arguably the most morally reprehensible decepticons out there.

    (aside: in terms of the people being like !!!! JRO NEEDS TO TELL HIM TO STOP!!!!!!! I was at tfcon last year where they were both on a panel and jro was talking about how codependent the djd were with each other pre-canon and how intimate they were and how they treated each other like family, so I think those folks are going to be disappointed about jro sticking to strict policy re: Bad People Do Bad Things And Good People Do Good Things)

    And Ratchet rolls with the punches in the moment, doesn't show much emotion besides being severely disappointed in Pharma for doing this (also, i'd lov to see some thoughtful consideration from ratchet about pharma being on a planet with the djd and it being a hazardous situation to exist in at all and compromises being... understandable, even if he still 100% disagrees). And in the end, he's saved by Drift, who's busy rusting to death and who Ratchet has Not treated well for the most part, making a big dramatic sword rescue.

    Plus then there's the whole deal with Drift taking the fall for Overlord, and Ratchet is there as he leaves, and sees how angry and violent the crowd is getting as he goes, which Drift just takes without a word. And Ratchet's been angry at Drift over his decisions before, but when it escalates like this, he's the one who steps in to help Drift up and ask if he's okay. Never even mind finding out later that Drift wasn't responsible for Overlord in the first place.

    And almost immediately afterwards, Pharma shows up again on Luna-1, and everything is so very, very personal this time. It's not about Delphi being a hazardous place and the DJD being dangerous, no no, this is about RATCHET. And I think I'm running out of words to describe this nice, but when Drift left, Ratchet sees Drift responding with a lot of patience and restraint to poor treatment. Possibly with some internal comparisons to how Drift has responded to things Ratchet has said to him in the past. And he's had time to think about what went wrong with Pharma, because he'd been ready to trust the guy until things went south, and these events take place right next to each other in the plotline, it's not hard to make comparisons between how people respond to treatment that's... not overtly cruel, but very demanding. He's leaned hard on Drift in the past, and almost found a snapping point in the annual. For whatever reason, the Pharma he knew has clearly hit a snapping point, and I love the idea of him turning inward and looking at what he might have done that contributed to this. It's not all his fault, and Pharma's responsible for his own decisions, but it's difficult not to wonder how things might have changed if his treatment of Pharma had been different, back in the day.

    (finally, obligatory reminder that jro said pharma sometimes looks at himself in the mirror and hates what he's become, plus also, pharma wasn't able to pass through a ~force field~, which was actually an aequitas field, which means you can't pass through if you're feeling guilt)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
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  3. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    (also I feel super pleased with my functionist pharma/ratchet fic now because the key part of the dynamic that I tweaked is that ratchet might out-doctor him, but pharma out-politics him, and that's 1) more important in a functionist world, 2) necessary for protecting ratchet, and it lets him feel like he has some power in the relationship, which scoots him past the worst of the need for approval without it festering and turning toxic)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
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  4. applechime

    applechime "well, you know, a very — a very crunchy person."

    HEY GUESS WHAT FRIENDS i met Spock "Spockandawe" "Massacre" Andawe in the Flesh a few days ago and GOOD NEWS she has exactly as many Good Robot Words to say in person as she does on kinstrudel (which is to say: So Many)

    (bad news: forgot to steal dna sample for brain cloning purposes. I'll Get Her Next Time)
     
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  5. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    asfdsds I AM PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE OF SHUTTING UP ABOUT MY SPECIAL INTERESTS, BUT I AM GLAD YOU HAVE FOUND A WAY TO TURN THAT INTO A VIRTUE XDDD

    I don't even want to consider how many robot/radch words I subjected you to, so I am glad u enjoyed the experience
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
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  6. applechime

    applechime "well, you know, a very — a very crunchy person."

    SEVEN HOURS OF WORDS BUT IM P SURE I GAVE AS GOOD AS I GOT

    (if anyone was curious: the spock has a remarkably human shape and a fairly typical number of limbs. the spock is shorter than me but could most assuredly destroy me in a physical confrontation, and probably you (yes, you) as well)
     
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  7. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    I MAKE NO COMMENTS ON THE SHAPE OF APPLECHIME OR THE NATURE AND NUMBER OF ANY LIMBS. I can only hope that eventually..... someday......... I can forget....................
     
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  8. applechime

    applechime "well, you know, a very — a very crunchy person."

    i have the normal human shape and number of limbs. they're mine and they're human
     
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  9. coldstars

    coldstars get Jazzy on it

    You definitely typed this with your human hands?
     
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  10. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    I realize precisely what I'm setting myself up for, since I told you about the horse post, but how did you acquire these human limbs?
     
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  11. applechime

    applechime "well, you know, a very — a very crunchy person."

    they were typed with human hands that belong to me, yes. i have hands
    the normal and legal way. they're human and i have them
     
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  12. valenstyne

    valenstyne Went out for cigarettes, never came back

    *peeks in* Hi guys, I don't even go here but I found something on Amazon I thought this thread might appreciate?
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    "Ancient Mask Water Slide Nail Art Decals"
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    lemme know if this kind of quality content is unappreciated and I'll delete it. *scuttles out*
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  13. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    BUY BOUGHT NOW WITH 1-CLICK
     
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  14. coldstars

    coldstars get Jazzy on it

    fightygirl.PNG

    I...luv her...this fighty girl who launches herself at everything, growling XD
     
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  15. Petra

    Petra space case

    I love the Imperial Radch stuff and I was thinking if u considered: robots being horrified at ancillaries.
     
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  16. applechime

    applechime "well, you know, a very — a very crunchy person."

    ooooooh robots interacting with radch ships and stations and ancillaries in general is just. tasty
     
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  17. Petra

    Petra space case

    Also the Presgar gun would probably be pretty impressively damaging on cybertronians but also too small for their fingers.
     
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  18. Petra

    Petra space case

    it would be very scary is what i'm saying. oh haha look at the little gun HOLY SHIT
     
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  19. Exohedron

    Exohedron Doesn't like words

    Brainstorm would love it. Perceptor would be offended.
     
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  20. Petra

    Petra space case

    Perceptor would be even more offended when Breq couldn't explain how it worked because aliens.
     
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