Yeah, I meant to say "trying to get surgery" because I was thinking money and uncooperative doctors would be a factor. I'll PM you for the name of that app. I'm just going to go back to the discussion on calorie counting because I haven't yet. I quit it before because it was a PITA for so many reasons. (It's so much easier when the food comes with barcodes.) When I start to track again, I'm still not going to be super-obsessed about daily calorie goals because it does even out. Mostly it's to combat boredom snacking, because having to weigh the cheese before and after nibbling at it is annoying. I was poking around a little about how 300 isn't a reasonable meal... I guess I'm an anomaly because a McDonald's cheeseburger can keep me going for a few hours. (Yikes on Wendy's 4for4 deal even with a cokezero for the drink.) Knorr noodle packs are about 600 calories, and I can do breakfast/lunch on one without having a ridiculous dinner. This one calorie estimator... a wild spitball with no regard for accuracy makes it seem like a decent amount of food doesn't have to be heavy in calories. a href="https://www.verywellfit.com/recipe-nutrition-analyzer-4157076" This is ignoring the fruit juice I had, but I could have replaced it with tea. A bowl of Cheerios or toast would have been better for the dissatisfaction of breakfast being pure protein, but I had rice leftover to eat for lunch. I am not okay with following bodypositive philosophy, then. I'm in a situation where I can just give up and live with the pain in my feet that doesn't go away even when I'm sitting, or I can do something about it like make some dietary changes and force myself to walk around the block so that maybe I'll get to a weight that does allow me to do that without pain. There's a different metric of better for everyone. It does poke holes in using genetics as an excuse. I'm going to remain a fence-sitter on the dieting thing. Personally, me trying to diet isn't going to hurt future generations because I'm not going to try and breed. I'll take my chances on harm to my person because it looks like I'm about to hit menopause and I don't have that much to lose. I almost shared this earlier when talking about chart-love. My husband got kicked out of the Navy because of having too skinny of a neck. He went in with bicyclist thighs, the mandatory workouts gave him matching biceps, but he carries all of his fat in his stomach. He was doing the slim-fast plan with Soylent for a while. He just got tired of being treated like a 22-year old at 34 and stopped fighting to stay barely within regs. They were sad to lose him despite how they didn't show any appreciation before.
Greallan, I posted links about why dieting doesn't work earlier in the thread. I know that they were dense with a lot of technical terms, but the abstracts (which summarize the entire study) are very readable.
I'm going to bold something and write it very big in a desperate attempt to get the point across: No it doesn't, it points to genetics being involved, in a considerable more complex fashion than people previously imagined, in so far that the nutritional situation of their GRANDPARENTS can NOW impact metabolisms in people, including making it very easy for them to put on weight and/or making it hard to lose it. Have you looked at ANY of the things I linked? At all? Because that's the point they're making. This isn't an argument about your diet anything, it's an argument on how weigthloss AS A CONCEPT is more complicated and how it can and does easily involve factors that are entirely out of a person's sphere of influence. I can put on similar studies focused on how traumatic experiences in one generation can alter physiological stress response in the descendants if you like, though I somehow doubt that that's gonna help much. There are a number of very complex factors involved in the physics and chemistry of weightloss and weightgain, never mind the psychological aspects thereof, and your understanding of them is woefully incomplete and you don't seem to want to change that.
Honestly I've said it before but fatlogicians/people with that mentality who aren't part of that group are the flat-earthers of the biology world.
I've just gotten yelled at for not providing the context when earlier I got yelled at for tangenting in the name providing context. Fatlogicians believe that you can't blame genetics for hyper-storing fat. I've always believed that some people do have bogglingly efficient metabolisms. I didn't read the links because I started out by agreeing with you. You probably didn't see this, but I also blame my hoarding on my grandparents growing up during the Great Depression, though that one might be nurture more than nature.
Cool, cool, cool. We're finally getting somewhere. You admit that the body positivity movement isn't for you, therefore don't try to justify your hatred of fat people (internalised hatred yaddayadda, I have been reading along) by saying positivity and HAES have somehow been corrupted by fat fatties refusing to do what everyone knows they should, omg. Just fucking own up to your bigotry. It won't make you any more popular, but at least it's honest. ... Irony. It does not mean ''sort of like iron'.
They may not be the target, but they're still being hurt. It's hard not to internalize that you should be trying harder even when you literally can't. So when people go on about THOSE fatties who could be doing better and need to stop co-opting body positivity, the people who are stuck feel like it's talking about them. It's like when people talk about certain people getting ADHD diagnoses because they want legal access to ritalin, people with actual ADHD may feel like they're faking or drug seeking despite having an actual problem. They may not be the target, but they're still hurt. No, we cannot agree. Because they're not saying "give up, it's not going to change." They're saying "don't hate yourself." And "don't hate yourself" is a message that doesn't need to be stifled. And you don't know if those "huge" people whose weight doesn't visibly change aren't trying! Making assumptions about whether they are or not is more harmful than people saying "hey maybe you shouldn't find yourself repulsive." And strangers- including you and fatlogic- don't get to be arbiters of what's trying hard enough. You don't know these people, you don't know what they're going through or what they're doing about their weight. So again: fuck right off with "but these people aren't trying haaaaard enough." Stop making blanket assumptions. Think of people as individuals, with their own thoughts and motives independent of whatever categories you put them under ("fat people who don't want to change," "black people not going to college," "the PPC," so on). Put yourself in their place- how would you feel in their situation? Try to relate their experiences to yours. Examine your assumptions and biases, and don't believe everything you read. Question the motives of the writer. Do research when they bring up things as facts. Get second opinions. If you want and give me a few hours I can find articles on picking up on manipulative writing and such. That thing you just said, about it not occurring to you that they might have different reasons? That's exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. Everyone has their own motivations, their own feelings, their own opinions. Don't shove them all into a single mass because they share traits. Safe assumptions are advanced technique, and it sounds like you should be starting at square one.
This bit here coincidentally is why I don't think you have empathy. You can learn a form of it. Please do.
so I'm having trouble not responding to this because it's making me feel like my brainpain is going to impact the top of my skull and cause a rage jökulhlaup all over the place. it's not good for my mental health so please redirect me if you see me trying to interact with this thread
This is a weird thing I gotta point out too. How does everyone know for sure that the people they're targeting and mocking or using as Examples Of Bad Things aren't dealing with health problems causing and impacting their weight? Like... Do they go up to every fat person they comment about later, or every youtuber or online personality or blogger who they make fun of and ask them to tell them highly personally details about themselves? It goes up there with people in my support group and people with other invisible illnesses getting their cars keyed in parking lots and police called on them and getting tow threats and shaming insulting letters stuck to their properly/legally handicap tagged vehicles "BECAUSE I SAW YOU GET OUT AND THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU OR YOUR PASSENGER!! SO OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE FAKING!!!" You don't know jack fucking shit about strangers lives and they aren't required to disclose every single inch of themselves for proof. I do because I don't give a shit and I'm angry because I can't shout it at strangers who give me particularly judgey looks.
Ayup. There's also the fact that people become accustomed to the level of activity in them military (i.e., a lot), and thus tend to gain a lot of fat when they return to civilian life, at least at first. Which of course, because people are wonderful, sometimes leads to them being accused of being fake/incompetent... Okay. Seriousness time. I don't think you're a bad person. I don't think you're a racist/ableist/anti-semetic whatever person - I think you're covered in bigoted fleas* because you're desperate for attention and have been looking for it in all the wrong places. Some of the interactions with you got off the handle a bit too quickly, I think in the racism thread, for instance, it should have been explained why your statements were based on false grounds before assuming bad faith. But you do have a habit of JAQing off** and obsessing over grudges forever, which, inevitably, leads to a continuous cycle of conflict that alienates you from the community, but also focuses their attention on you. Better to be hated than ignored, after all. But ultimately, this is simply a spiral of self-hatred and self-destruction. You need to find a community based around something you like, somewhere you don't need to be the center of attention to feel accepted. I don't know where this is, I'm not you and I'm not a therapist, but... it literally took you five minutes to make yourself Public Enemy Number One on this forum, and that's a pretty damn impressive feat. You need to calm down, you need to relax, stop obsessing over getting the last word. And you need to let go of your grudges. You are not a dwarf***, your gods do not demand you hold every slight for eternity on pain of death. I understand that being rejected from the only community where you felt you belonged to was traumatic. But there is nothing you can do about it that won't make the situation worse. I don't care one whit about who is in the right or the wrong here, if that was the most traumatic, abusive experience you've had, get out of there. There is a reason the first resort for any abuse victim is get out. Trying to hang around convincing your abuser that really, you were in the right all along and actually - no, that's just going to get you traumatized more. You don't have to forgive them, but let it go - not for their sake, for yours. Then, find something you enjoy doing - for yourself, not for the fame. Try lurking in communities that interest you, learn their standards, expectations, etc. Take notes if you have to. When someone chastises you, do not immediately double down. Ask what you did to offend them, if it seems reasonable, apologize and try not to do it again. If it's a difference of opinion or you still don't understand, try to shrug it off and at least don't keep pressing the point. If you're wrong, it'll keep you from digging further, and if they're being unreasonable, it's not worth fighting them. If someone outright insults you, ignore them. Yes, I am suggesting you not defend yourself - your responses here have indicated you are way over-primed to retaliate, and overcompensating is probably the closest we'll get to reasonable for the time being.**** In any event, flame wars aren't actually worth fighting. I honestly don't know how to do all of this, necessarily - I am, again, not a professional. But it is very important you get out of the very literal death-spiral you're currently in. I understand you're already talking to a therapist - consider reassessing how you're explaining and filtering your experiences, and/or getting a different one. Please, please try to find a way to coexist with others without making yourself the center of attention. *: As in, you've absorbed the memes of various not-so-pleasant groups/individuals. This doesn't mean you actually agree with them, but your standards of what is acceptable speech and behavior are based on what is, to most people, considered unacceptable. The statement 'there are a fair number of Jews in the media, and thus their cultural touchstones are often evident in said media' is... at most mildly offensive. But you phrased it as 'The Jews control the media, but I don't think they're doing anything malicious with it.' This is a slightly different statement, but more importantly, the way in which it is conveyed is an anti-semetic precept. While you don't agree with what the precept is implying, the fact you use the same phrasing creates suspicion. You're essentially sounding a dogwhistle, and wondering why the only things that react are dogs (to strain a metaphor). **: JAQing Off = 'Just Asking Questions', where someone comes into a community and asks a nested series of 'hypothetical' questions that are both basic and fundamentally counter to the community's purpose. Typically, this is done as a loaded method of arguing something stupid, while maintaining the pretense of good faith. This is what happened in the racism thread, where you started with a bunch of 'but what if, hypothetically, <racist precept> was actually true?' Some people went off immediately, which isn't the best, but understandable because guess what, they've heard it all before, debunked it all before, and often coming from people with far less noble intentions than yourself. And then when others did explain it, you simply doubled down. Don't do that. ***: Warhammer Fantasy variant dwarfs here. ****: For the love of god, you snapped at someone who gave you snarky criticism after specifically asking for snarky criticism. Also, reassess whether you're actually able to take said criticism.
Long as you're aware that you'd be joining that ecosystem as food, while you decompose. Because unless you're swimming out to some kind of micronation or self-sustaining island paradise, that's what you're gonna be doing. I hope you won't be doing that. Being a human is hard. I'm still in this argument when it comes to the subject matter, but on a human being level, I hope you're going to be okay.
There's still the issue of dragging down people who don't have anything wrong with them... I think "my conditions" might be a dogwhistle with three meanings. The first meaning is "I have legitimate reasons," the second group has a meaning that I can't work out but there's nothing actually wrong with them that they couldn't fix, the fatlogicians misspell it to mean "I'm just making excuses." (I wasn't meaning to get bit with another flea, but I just read a healthcare story about how the bariatric patients are generally non-compliant with instructions like "don't eat before this test.") So basically I don't think that they actually check. Considering that they're not really concerned with people on the street, but people who talk about it... There was attention on how to actually help people. Yesterday I had this weird tangent happen, and I think it was because of your post. https://gutenberg.ca/ebooks/lewiscs-lastbattle/lewiscs-lastbattle-00-h.html Start reading here. {"And after that," said Edmund, "came about a dozen Dwarfs: and then Jill, and Eustace, and last of all yourself."} So WWJD? He'd tell people that you can't lead a dead horse to water.
Sorry in advance for the armchair medical commentary, but I have a chronic foot pain issue as well, and the obvious diagnosis for it is a condition that can, in some cases, be improved via weight loss; however, in my case, that's not actually the problem or the solution. (As in, that's not the correct diagnosis, and even if it was I wouldn't be one of the people for whom weight loss would help.) (Yes, this has been confirmed by medical professionals. But it wouldn't have been if I hadn't strongly self-advocated to overcome the initial barrier of just being told 'eh, get over it', which was their first reaction.) Nevertheless, I've had completely well-meaning people suggest that I lose weight to get rid of it. In other words, I know nothing about your own case of foot pain, but I'd like to note that it is possible that you've been misinformed about its relationship to your weight. Again, I don't know about you personally, but on the off chance that you (or someone else reading this) have (has) an unusual form of foot pain which is easily mistaken for something weight-related, I thought I might as well bring it up.
False that I want to be the center of attention. I didn't want to be the center of the racism thread, but I wanted the discussion to happen. The addiction thread is something that I'm just going to have to sit around and wait for someone else to talk about if I don't want to get attacked about that as well. I was actually happy that the fatlogic thread was slipping off of me, but I didn't resist people dragging me back in. I like the flea analogy. In trying to learn how to be a better person, I didn't realize I was hanging around mammalian vermin and picked up their parasites. As far as grudges here go, I'm going to have to start ignoring people who keep dragging up things that I've explained already. JAQing off has never gone this badly before. Someone in askHAES noticed that I had been hanging out in fatlogic, but we actually had a good discussion after that initial roughness. I think that while she didn't change my mind about anything and I wasn't trying to change her mind, it seemed to have gone really well. (Basically I went in there with the mindset that CICO is risky and some people should not do it, but that I wasn't one of those people.) Not going to go through that point-by-point. There was nodding, there was frowning, there was sighing at the stuff that was off-target. That last point really bugs me, but I think I got it figured out. I was agreeing with him when I wrote the response, going back it still looks to me like agreeing with him... Desdendell told me that no one likes their work criticized. I think what I'm doing wrong is being too happy about it and since people don't do that, I must be being sarcastic. So how do I give the right amount of resistance to act like I'm disappointed when I'm really quite happy about the feedback?
