The point is that I can't hear dogwhistles, so I can't tell a toxic culture from a healthy one. You're making arguments about hating when I just see rational arguments, and that's where the disconnect comes in.
Okay! I can help with this. Toxic communities and language: - puts yourself or others down. "Hamplanets" is an example of this. The thing you said about sin leaving a mark on their bodies, that's toxic language that induces shame. Insults, personal attacks, etc. - value judgements based on appearance. Writing people off if they don't fit the acceptable mold. What it is 'acceptable' to look like morphs as society flexes and changes and hard right wing groups will zoom in super hard on anything that deviates from those acceptable norms and label it as Sinful or Disgusting And Bad. See older right wing people being super aggressive about tattoos and coloured hair, for example. - encourages a state of being 'always on', as in if you aren't thinking about the Pet Cause you're awful, often through microaggression style jabs. Stuff like "i swear we're the only people who give a fuck about this", "if you don't do X you're a piece of shit", etc. Anything that makes you feel like if you aren't always on guard for whatever the Cause is, you're failing either the group or yourself. - isolate people over time - encourage extremism and black/white thinking - microaggressions, microaggressions everywhere. stuff like "i'd have no problem with gay people if they didn't keep shoving it in my face" is toxic as hell, because what is meant by that is "existing where I can see them living their lives and being happy". there's a lot more but that's a good starter to consider!
That's great to hear, it sounds like your hoarder group will be a good place to look for resources. Try to emphasize to your coordinator that you want assistance in finding housing separate from your husband, and that you need help finding an alcohol treatment program. That's another very good idea. You can also ask the coordinator about helping you get transportation. Finding a therapist you get along with can be very hard, and emotionally draining, but it's your best chance at getting help. Have you ever been in contact with Adult Protective Services?
Okay I'm going to try to break this down in bullet points to see if it's easier to digest: Shame and embarrassment are not the same thing. What you felt was embarrassment. What you stated is that you tried to communicate shame. You still didn't explain why you felt that telling us about this was relevant to the conversation of, " its not okay to act violently toward someone out of frustration." It is not related.
Hamplanet isn't just about being fat. It's about people who cuss out the nearest store employee about the scooty-puffs being dead, or will yell at someone who's using a scooty puff that they're not disabled and taking it away from the obese person who actually needs it. But yeah, there are probably things to call them that don't bring size into it. The value judgement isn't about how people look. And the always on was why it was better that I'm not on fatlogic anymore. Where did the gay part come from?
Greallan, do you think it's okay to throw the N-word at black people who behave that way, or would you be happy about someone calling you the R-word because they didn't like your behaviour?
That isn't why I think APS would be helpful. Having a case worker, someone who knows what local programs are available and can navigate the bureaucracy for you, would be very useful in your situation.
Except it..... is. The entire insult is conditional on the person being fat. It's not about how they're an asshole, and it's not an insult relating to their behavior, it's an insult about their bodies. And if another fat person hears that term, even if they're a complete saint, how on earth are they supposed to know it doesn't include them. This isn't directed at assholes, it's directed AT fat people, you're just saying it only applies to assholes. And let's say a fat person was using a scooter in the store and it broke down and they had to talk to a salesperson about it. Honestly, they probably already feel pretty miserable about that. Odds are good they already feel guilty for needing extra accommodations in public, because that's a pretty classic emotional response. Odds are VERY good they already feel bad about the casual judgment other people are passing on them for needing those accommodations. And then they probably feel worse about having to 'make a scene', and 'cause trouble', no matter how polite or deferential they are. Now, this person. They're not going to read that explanation and feel better. They'll feel worse, because oh god, that's me, I'M the person who caused the problem in the store. It doesn't matter that they were polite, they're not going to think this through in a completely logical and detached way and be like ahhh, this insulting description of fat people only applies to fat people who experienced the exact same thing as me and responded differently, truly i have not been insulted and have zero reason to feel bad about this description of fat bodies. Which doesn't even touch on the part where I have a hard time believing this is even enough of a problem to justify the term in the first place! If hamplanets are only the fat people who behave in these assholeish ways that relate directly to their fatness, this isn't a large group of people. I'm sure they exist. I'm sure the term is used for a LOT more folks than just the egregious assholes, and I'm sure most fatlogic doesn't CARE that it's used that way. Or, i dunno, maybe the fat person yelling at a store worker was bullied and provoked until they had no choice but to yell and lash out. Going by your personal logic, that's totally justified, right? :) And you're already getting upset. Because you've just acknowledged that there are probably better terms than hamplanet, and I'm 'trying to change your mind' when it's already been changed. No. That's not my point. My point is that you casually do these hurtful things and then get upset when people are hurt. You get more upset and defensive when they try to explain WHY they're hurt. And in the meantime, you're arguing that collateral damage is just FINE, because the people getting hurt might be the WRONG kind of fatties, and hurting innocent bystanders because they might have done something wrong is perfectly okay. This isn't about just hamplanet. This is a persistent pattern, and repeats often enough that I'm already sick of the part where people have to painstakingly explain why a thing is hurtful, over and over, until you acknowledge they MIGHT have a point. Next time I talk to my gay friend about how ughhh the gays are [SLUR SLUR SLUR INSULT SLUR STEREOTYPE SLUR], he shouldn't be offended, because ummmm OBVIOUSLY I'm only talking about the BAD gays, not HIM. Spoilers, the 'bad gays' isn't a meaningful category. Neither is 'the bad fatties'. Your approach to conditional insults causes a shit-ton of collateral harm and even if you drop the use of this one specific term, you're doing it in plenty of other ways, while arguing that it's totally justified.
It sounds like you have I internalized a lot of your husband's anger toward you and come to the conclusion that because you are disabled and cannot always be a housewife who cleans and cooks, you are abusive. Which is not true! I won't tell you he's a bad person or that he's abusive since that's not helpful to you and I also don't know him. But I can say he's not dealing with his anger in a healthy way either for you or for himself. It does suck that he can't run, but going for a short walk is a good option as well. I think when you're (general you) upset with someone it's very helpful to remove yourself from the situation so you don't take it out on them. And I'm not saying he should never get mad or frustrated, it happens. Sometimes things are frustrating or you have fights. It's just the way he deals with his anger and frustration that is hurting you. And even if you do do things that are hurtful to him as well that does not excuse him being hurtful to you.
Yeah, if they tried to be polite at first and the other person is mean or dismissive, there is room for yelling. It's when the store-employee doesn't get to say anything before the insults begin is the problem. I guess the term that applies to non-fat people is "the I-want-to-speak-with-your-manager haircut." In this case, I gave a bit and you acknowledged the shift instead of accusing me of a viewpoint I never held. Maybe I picked it up from the PPC, who you labelled as victims that didn't do anything wrong? It's really confusing when everyone else can do something to me and be in the right, but I'm wrong when I do it. I'll try to retrain myself when I figure out what's going on. "Bad gays" "bad fatties" I was being labelled as a bad neurodiverse, but I guess no one noticed that one.
Why the fuck do fat people need their own offensive term if the phenomenon is ALREADY LABELED. And good god, you don't have this information. You don't have the personal medical history for every person you say is lying about weight loss, you don't have the backstory for every person you've called a ham-planet Or, my actual point, if yelling at a store worker is inappropriate to start with, 'but they maaaaaade me do it' is still almost never an appropriate excuse for this escalation Absolutely fucking nothing about how I approach this has changed, stop deciding I hold opinions I never held. Citation fucking needed, thank you Good lord, you did this moments after accusing me of attacking you for opinions you never held. Citation needed CITATION :) NEEDED :)))))))))
PS, you still think innocent collateral damage is acceptable so you can attack people who are maybe, MAYBE liars, that is a point you directly agreed with. You don't need extra labels for that to still make you a cruel person.
the PPC was hurt because you kept saying racist shit and evading bans for literal years you were hurt because they banned you hurts are not always equivalent
That is not howthat works, no. That's not abuse. You being disabled and physically and emotionally NOT CAPABLE of the work is not abuse. You are not abusing him. You are not a live-in servant or slave. That's not how marriage works.
I'm starting to see a pattern and that pattern is you don't actually understand what is or isn't abuse. Your perception as what "counts" its completely skewed.
It's an analogy. Kathy was pointing out the similarities between toxic communities, and drawing parallels between examples of toxic/aggressive/negative behavior towards gay people and similar behavior towards fat people.
Most of us are neurodiverse and we're still perfectly capable of understanding that you shouldn't mock people's weight. We're not calling you a bad neurodiverse, we're saying you're displaying the behaviour of a bad person by going out of your way to be a jerk and complain when it's thrown back at you. I don't think you are an inherently bad person, or that there's really any such thing, but your behaviour is bad.
