Honestly, my husband is just about the only person outside of my family that could tolerate me long-term. That was ten years ago, and I haven't really tried since then so I probably got a lot worse since. You people started treating me like shit almost immediately, not that I was actually putting energy into not being me. I just can't keep up the mask.
Telling you when something you do or say is hurtful and telling you to stop is not treating you like shit. This is the same thing that got you in the deep end with ppc. Again, you are laboring under an extremely warped sense of what constitutes abuse, bad behaviour, reasonable and unreasonable responses to situations etc. People getting mad when you say something inflammatory, derogatory or cruel: not abuse or treating you like shit. People being terse and tense in their dealing with your interactions when this happens: not abuse or treating you like shit. People reacting to that anger by turning around to belittle, humiliate or threaten you: bad! This IS treating you like shit, and that person needs to step away because bring hurtful doesn't help anyone! This is not however a pattern of abuse unless/ until- People seeking you out specifically to be cruel to you, or venting their frustration with something unrelated on you because you are an easy target: BAD! This is not a situation that can be debugged. The best solution is to remove yourself. You do not deserve cruelty, not even if you've been callous or hurtful in the past.
As someone who was told repeatedly by an abusive romantic partner "no one else will put up with your shit" I can definitely say that thinking right there is this result of people telling you for a long time that you are completely unreasonable and only the saint that is the person saying so is capable of dealing with you. (I realize tone is hard for you so to clarify the person not really a saint but an asshole) I'm sure there have been many situations in your life where people were legitimately unable to communicate with you and chose to opt out, but that isn't the same situation which I think maybe you are confusing? And I also don't think people immediately started treating you like shit since I've been vaguely aware of your contributions to the forum since you started posting a lot. I think people told you how they felt about things you said and did, and you took that as something more negative than it was meant. And now you find yourself in a situation where people are tired of trying to reason with you and it shows through in their responses to you. One of the reasons probably being that you often don't engage with what is being said. This reply to me in a great example of that. Your response is only kinda connected to my words and doesn't actually engage with anything I did say.
The PPC did do that to me, even talking bad about me in third person when they knew that I was there.
I went into my problem pretty quickly after introduction, and people immediately started labeling me as the abuser and dismissed my experience. No once since my dad told me that I had to be better or else I'd end up barefoot and pregnant, but he was also a childfree who was forced into it, and felt comfortable telling me he was wishing for a retroactive abortion... or making jokes that I should be sealed in a barrel, fed through the bung-hole, and then when I turned 18 he would drive in the bung. Everyone else showed it by not making the effort to keep in contact with me. I made the effort in a lot of cases where I could, but it didn't work out.
I'll go through this bit by bit. Some others have already pointed out problems with it but ultimately: - It does not matter what justification you have for the word. It doesn't. Bigoted people can say calling someone a faggot isn't just about being gay, it could be about [x] reason! It does not matter. It's an insult, it's a slur. It is not okay. - It sounds like you've picked up a lot of exclusionist beliefs as well as bigoted ones so: if someone needs a scooter, it doesn't matter why they need one. They can use it. If someone has an addictive behaviour, they can use the language of addiction to talk about it. Hoarders can use the terms as well as alcoholics and drug addicts because there's a compulsion and it is causing you harm. - People with invisible disabilities exist and are harmed by the sort of language you use as well. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, for instance. Fibromyalgia, which I have. To share a personal anecdote, I was on my way to a convention a couple of years ago and I was heavily limping after traveling on a bus to get there for seven hours. I was in agony from a fibro flareup, I was sweating and in near tears. A man crossed the street to come over and tell me to 'walk properly, walk like a woman, take some fucking pride in yourself', and refused to accept that I was disabled. Told me I was being lazy and throwing my life away. Kept pace with me for like five minutes lecturing me about my life and circumstances before I was able to get away. That didn't happen anymore after I got a cane, although I still get doubting looks and questions about why I need it. But without any markers for my disability other than my personal struggle, people treated me like utter shit. And that wasn't okay. Similarly, making calls based on what you think the overweight person riding the scooter's Actual Problem is, is not okay. Eta: I brought up the common microaggression toward lgbt+ people as an example of toxic language, and a comparison. Further ETA: I believe that you had a very upsetting experience with the PPC people, I do think it is pretty massively out of proportion to the actual problem and indicative of something else being wrong. However, your distress and experience with it does not discount the fact that you were unambiguously abusive toward them for an extended period of time, and you have entered a community full of abuse survivors, some with experience being harassed and stalked. Your distress is real, your emotions are real - they do not mean you did nothing wrong, or that the PPC was wrong to ban you for the reasons they cited of toxic behaviour toward members. They did not deserve to be abused as a result of your distress.
Probably completely unrelated to what the conversation is about now since I skipped several pages, but if anyone involved wants a decent resource on research about diets/weight loss/etc, HealthCare Triage is a youtube channel that generally cites its exact study sources and what kind of trial was done and how conclusive that makes the data when discussing any issue, so is a good source for those looking for general information https://www.youtube.com/user/thehealthcaretriage/search?query=weight here is link of videos it recs when i just search 'weight' on the channel random information source fairy out
-Noted about the slut. -Well, exclusionism isn't always bad? I've heard that people who have to watch their spoons get so insulted when people who usually have more than enough spoons talk about "I don't have the spoons for that." It kinda devalues spoons if people who have enough talk about spending them. And "hamplanet" (sorry for the shorthand) is the type of person who would use fatness to prioritize themselves over an old person or someone with a leg injury. -Your anecdote is about a person who is clearly out-of-line. The most judgement I've passed on the street began with them scowling at me and should have ended before I noticed what they look like. I also just turn my eyes down and don't confront them. You said "a man" and then talked like it happened a lot before you got a cane. Are all the people who do this to you men? Are you ashamed of not noticing the women that do this to you? -Weird, I used a cane for fat-person problems and the only people I noticed were nice. Of course, I was in a mode of not noticing anyone unless they were in my way or trying to interact with me. Fat people can ride in scooters. I used one after I twisted my ankle bad enough to be provided crutches, used the cane because they were a hassle and I was going to leave if they didn't have a scooter available, and almost getting knocked over at the meat cooler probably had nothing to do with how I parked my scooter and limped over; someone offered to help me with the shampoo across the store. Thanks for clarifying the lgbtq thing. That it got focused on the PPC was a bad thing. I should have murdered my dean instead of just lying down and accepting that I'm worthless.
You have been told that this language is unacceptable regardless of the person's behavior. You. Have. Been. Told. Stop trying to justify it. Shut the hell up and listen.
Nope. The more people who use a term like that, the more widely understood it tends to be, and the more sympathetic people are when you use the term. Also, that person you are mentally giving a hard time because they're using their fat to prioritise over someone with as leg injury (absolutely literally never seen that happen, been in service jobs a long, long time) - you don't know what these people's lives are. Maybe the leg injury person did that during extreme sports, thereby compromising their own health - i take it you wouldn't suggest to them they can't use disabled facilities because of that? Maybe the person 'using their fatness' is fat because of a chronic condition you can't see, or because of extreme mobility issues caused by something else. You don't know. You can't know. Stop. Trying. To. Make. Excuses. For. Your. Bigotry.
Have you ever seen infomercials where it looks like an abled person is just utterly failing to do tasks in an overblown way, and then that item takes off and gets popular? Like the snuggie? The snuggie is a blanket designed for people in wheelchairs. Infomercials use abled people to make the products have mass market appeal, but a lot of the products are designed for people with disabilities. When they are purchased more widely, it allows the manufacturers to keep prices low, so the people who need them as disability accommodations can get them at a reasonable price. There are times when this doesn't go so well - fidget spinners being labelled a Teen Trend rather than a thing most users were using to stim in a non-intrusive way and the result being them getting banned from many classrooms sucked! but in time that'll fade. There are some people who feel like abled folks using spoon theory is insulting, but as it becomes more widely used that's fewer people I need to explain it too. It's more people who understand, and don't look down on me for needing a break. It's the same with normalizing listing or asking about pronouns on social media sites, or the use of cards to indicate whether you're willing to talk to people as convention. By having these things slowly become mainstream over time, we become less Othered by having to use them as accommodations. Maybe that's what it is to you. Which, is an incredibly niche event to happen, by the way. To me it's an insult that makes me feel like I just got slapped every time I read it. Please stop using it. It's not an effective communication of what you want it to mean. I don't know where you got that assumption, but no. Women have done it to me plenty. I'm not even particularly fat, by many standards, but I've still been publicly shamed and mocked for my weight by cruel people who have no problem calling me a whale when I'm trying to swim. Which, by the way, please imagine how utterly discouraging that is when I'm trying to do physical therapy exercises so I can get fitter and stronger? That's what terms like hamplanet achieve.
I've seen the shell-less egg boiler get razzed on pretty hard, and this was in the same subreddit that needed to be reminded about old people before they started campaigning that pre-peeled fruit was useless and wasteful and should be illegal. (Like fidget spinners?) Those commercials show that anyone who uses eggies is too stupid to peel an egg, which makes the problem worse. Why not use differently-abled people, even if you just stick to the old? If everyone got convinced that their grandparental figures needed it, there would be enough produced for the younger differently-abled. (Self-balancing spoon, how are they going to make that a trend?) You missed my point. This one group was making me uncomfortable with looks, and I was ashamed for noticing a demographic similarity, and found a way to turn it in on myself. You managed not to do that somehow. Even "black people scowl at me" without explanation is probably some horrible judgement on their culture.
I didn't address that point because I wasn't sure what you meant. Okay so, you've said that you try to keep your head down and not pay attention to the people around you unless bothered, right? I believe there were many potential explanations given to you in the racism thread, but. It is very, very probable that you're more tuned to noticing the expressions of POC due to internalized racism, giving them more weight than you would a similar >:I from a white person. Plenty of people have resting >:I faces, I do! If I'm not smiling I either look like I'm about to burst into tears or alternately like I'm in a foul mood, it's just the way my mouth rests. But if you're aware that you're noticing it more often, the good news is you can start actively challenging it! I hold to the school of thought that your first reaction to something is often what you've been taught by your cultural upbringing, and the second what you truly believe. If you have a thought like "ugh, black people keep scowling at me", you can challenge that with things like "but I don't know what kind of day this person has had, and also there are plenty of white people who don't smile all the time. That might be their natural expression. It doesn't reflect on me." and slowly train yourself out of those instinctive thought patterns! It's the same with any kind of prejudice - it's not a natural thing inherent in the brain, it's taught and learned. If you want to fix it, and you should, you can! It just takes effort and hard work.
Also, hm. For the sake of this going literally anywhere productive, I'm gonna list a bunch of things I've gotten from stuff you've said and I'd appreciate you replying with just true or false to whether you believe them to be true so I can tell what your opinions actually are: - I believe overweight people are inherently sinful - I believe the majority of overweight people are just making excuses and could slim down if they really wanted too - I believe the best way to make people realize they need to lose weight is by mocking them - I do not believe that most people who cite a medical condition as the reason for their weight are telling the truth - I do not understand why anyone would want to feel positive about their fat body - I believe fat people waste space that could be occupied by people who need it more and are choosing to be selfish And with that done here's a list of things I'd like to have replied too the same way based off things said in this thread: - I am open to changing my toxic mindset - I am willing to read scientific sources and articles shared about the things I would like to talk about, even if they provide facts that go against my held beliefs - I am willing to commit to treating the members of the forum with respect and dignity, without insulting them or putting words in their mouths - I am willing to apologize for the harm I have caused people due to my communication issues, and in learning how to apologize in a way that does not cause more harm
This is a complete aside, but you have no idea how many unitaskers and ridiculous (at first glance, at least) products people will buy because they think it's unique and neat. The website I work for pretty much only sells these types of products. One of our most popular products is the Butterie. It's just a plastic butter dish, but the top flips back, instead of being a separate piece. (Which is actually pretty useful, now that I think about it...) People go crazy for that kinda stuff
Other people can't see the disconnect between not razzing the sports-injury person even if they might have done that during a jackass stunt, but razzing the overweight person in the scooty-puff when they don't know if it was self-inflicted or a side-effect of not being able to walk. That's why I'm not "using the scootypuffs is bad" but just slowly absorbing the stories from others, maybe starting to think that chronic riders should try to get their own. (Yes, I did just have to two-person lift one out of a jeep because I was with someone who needed it.) Again, think about the people I haven't personally encountered, and whether or not I should believe they exist.
I knew there was something I wanted to add. My SIL is a person-of-size and doesn't make any excuses for it. I was visiting and suggested leftover night, which would have meant her extra cooking set out. She needed to go full Ameri-Italio hospitality and make a new several-dish meal. We were at an event where they needed to put granny's walker away from the seating area. SIL went and got it afterwards and people gave her nasty looks while she was pushing it. So I do have an anecdote about someone being treated unfairly for their size.
...Plenty of people exist. The human experience can be vastly different from person to person. Every single person you ever see has a life just as complex as your own, has their own struggles and things they're good or bad at. If you need to personally encounter Model Minority type figures to readjust your perceptions, you should do some serious introspection as to why you require this in order to adjust toxic beliefs. You have no idea if a chronic rider of a scooter can afford their own. It's none of your business, either. Ultimately the most pressing thing you need to do is stop being so concerned with how other people are living their lives if they are not hurting you. Stop casting aspersions on people based on preconceived notions and ideals. If you start trying to internalize that maybe the people riding the public use scooters are being selfish because they should just buy their own that's a whole different set of toxic beliefs you've nudged yourself into.
That is completely unreasonable. 1) if people who need the scooters can just get their own, what's the point of the store having them available in the first place? 2) did you know how fucking expensive those things are??? Do you know how hard it is get insurance to cover something like that?? 3) what if they don't need a scooter for all the time, but just when they're going to do a lot of walking at one time, like at the grocery store? Like, I cannot even express how frustrated I am that you think that chronically ill people have enough resources to just get a scooter for themselves and bring it to the grocery store when they need to go shopping. Yes, some people can, or have to, get their own scooters. But not everyone who needs one at the store can. Source: My mother was sick for over four years with chronic anemia and internal bleeding. Spoiler: Tw description of medical issues and fatphobia Because of fatphobia in the medical industry, the doctors wouldn't let her have the surgery that would've prevented her life from being in danger multiple times. They never even told her that she couldn't have the surgery because they wanted her to weigh ten pounds less. At that time, she could have lost the weight, had the surgery and not lost four years of her life. Instead, she slowly got more and more lethargic. We thought she didn't have enough iron in her blood, but iron shots and the like were only temporary relief. Plus is was a fight to get the doctors to prescribe them on a regular basis. She was hospitalized three times because she had half the amount of blood that she was supposed to. Eventually she got good doctors who didn't just dismiss her because she was fat and she was able to do what she needed to do to get better. Anyway, so due to the fact that she didn't have enough blood, she was tired and dizzy all the time, so even walking from the car to the store door took a lot out of her. So we used the store scooters for her, and most of the time I would do the heavy lifting and running around. You couldn't see what was wrong with her just by looking at her, and sometimes she would get up and walk down the aisle for something and get back in the scooter because she felt bad for making me do it. She was always worried about what other people were thinking when she'd use the scooter, because to most people she looked perfectly able bodied. We wanted to get her both an accessible parking tag, and a scooter, but between the fucking insane prices, the logistics of being able to cart it around and use it on a daily basis, and trying to get the doctors to work with us for even a second, it wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth it even though she could literally pass out from blood loss if she wasn't careful. Also, we were pretty blessed at the time (and now), that both my parents were making a decent amount of money that we were even able to consider getting a scooter instead of just dismissing it out right. So pardon me for being FUCKING PISSED OFF at your suggestion that people who use the scooters on a regular basis should "just get one of their own." And before you say "oh, I only mean the people who don't need them" -- You. Cannot. Know. That. You don't know who those people are. So unless you are willing to let people who have "legitimate" issues be caught in the cross fire, this is a bad policy Edit - phone typos
