Yeah I think there's a definite benefit to tapping out. Greallan doesn't seem to be in a place where any of this is going to sink in.
yeah uh when ive had more than a few it was a struggle to follow a YouTube video in my native language. I can't imagine productively engaging with someone who wants to change my worldviews using textwalls of science and logic-based debates like that if it seems like almost nothing sinks in and the same points keep coming up over and over, theres a reason for that
I mean, rigs, if you're going to nitpick formal vs informal use of 'statistically significant' (it's hard to call it jargon when there aren't any parameters defined for what formal mathematical significance would even entail), I think it's reasonable to nitpick use of 'orbiters' as a cheap and lazy disparagement, especially when seebs was barely involved until last night, and 'unhinged' isn't that much better :P I agree that this conversation isn't going anywhere productive, because it can't when Greallan either can't or won't read the bulk of what people are saying, and because her posts keep causing fresh hurts in the meantime, which only adds to the pile of responses she can't/won't read. But I don't think this is a fair or helpful critique of what's going south with this whole conversation, and I'm also not too comfortable with the idea that the implication that people here Greallan has directly hurt are grouped under that 'unhinged' and that they need to sit down and shut up. So like... this might not be a productive thread, and I'm plenty aware that I'm probably one of the people you are deliberately intending to call unhinged, but I haven't seen any individuals arguing with Greallan who are out of control. Most people seem aware of their own limits and are tapping out as they need to. People are frustrated and/or hurt and expressing that, which they are allowed to do, and I'm not sure how worthwhile engaging with her at all is (even as I've been doing it, yes), but cannonballing into the conversation late-stage with these sorts of attacks is a pretty cheap disruptive tactic.
Okay, not literally telling someone they should be fat, but I'm sure the person and her doctor already discussed the risks and benefits. https://imgur.com/ikE1NPk https://imgur.com/g4IaMtG This one is about feeling personally attacked because someone was lighter. I kinda don't want to go down the fatlogic rabbithole again. While not a hate-group, it does get intense. Helpful stories about success and failure on PCOS weightloss. https://www.reddit.com/r/fatlogic/comments/95erhb/pcos_overrules_thermodynamics/e3s58g6/ I'm an example. There was a guy I used to talk to that only has anxiety and he's given up. I'm not going to go wading for examples, but it does pop up every once in a while. Oh, you're talking specifically about someone who is catastrophically upset because they hate their body? It seems like most of them are bo-po. Well, I haven't seen any "your choice to diet is a personal attack to shame me" sort of thing, so you probably aren't hurting the bopo movement. I think we've diffused a bit of the anti-dieting around calorie counting. I'm halfway bopo in that I couldn't care about how large I am except for problems finding clothes. The self-image doesn't match the mirror, so slightly delusional, but I wouldn't diet this time *just* because I don't like what I see. I also didn't like the way my hips started jutting out when I was doing unsustainable CICO. (Can't remember, but I was probably still overweight.) Well, if reminding people that it's not impossible when they say it is, is that being an ass? Do I have to just stay silent when they say I don't exist? Is there some middle ground between lording it over people and never speaking of it? It's not going to be easy even though I have the unfair advantage of knowing about PCOS but not going on hormones (does an IUD that was supposed to be removed last year count?) I've got other unfair advantages. Yeah, I'm not going to approach someone unless they're complaining about their diet or somesuch. (Someone in my mom's knitting group was happy at my advice.) If they say it's because of PCOS I'll admit that it makes things harder.
It's been established that Greallan can't hold an actual conversation because she isn't in touch with reality, due to mental illness or alcoholism or otherwise. No one is getting what they want out of this thread or the other one. Motion to lock both threads and everyone move the fuck on. eta: whatever
what?? not what I asked for sources on (which you even say directly), and pcos weight loss tips is even less what I asked for, but whatever, I give up. you don't have sources for folks lying to keep people fat. but you won't examine that fact and reconsider your own beliefs, so this is a waste of time even explaining.
Rigs, Seebs is busy sanding down their bathroom walls and is not available for flirting at this time. Please try again later. Gee, I don't think it's fair to close the thread when Greallan is still wanting to post and people are still responding. People are allowed to spend their time however they like. I do agree that it's not going anywhere and that's why I stopped engaging, but it's okay if others want to keep posting.
> "cite your sources" > cites the one thing we're in argument about and one thing most of us have classed as being at best biased and at worst a targetted hate campaign 10/10, 100/10
Nope, it's pretty much people who don't want others to lose weight because of their own issues. Probably pretty focused in a place like fatlogic. If I hung out on inceltears (which mocks a hate-group that got knocked down) I would think that incels were pretty common, too. FFS. My arbitrary degree is they admit "I just don't want to do it" or "it's harder than I can handle" instead of trying to invent stuff that does discourage and scare people. If all I heard was "it's impossible to lose weight with PCOS" instead of clarifyers about how it's difficult and a diabetic diet might help, I'd be pretty miserable. Whether or not I do it, I have power. And I'm feeling like you're doing everything you can to shame and vilify me because I was deemed a fair target. Pretty much. My teeth are rotting and I just ignore it because the dentist would cost even with insurance. My mom knows someone who just died because they felt it wasn't worth trying to fight the cancer anymore. Wouldn't it be representative of the people on the blog? Maybe they're a skinny-person trying to discredit other people because they perceive that they're being shamed?
Your assumption that my commentary is based solely on this thread is ill-founded. I've watched Staff pretty relentlessly pick on and mock G for a while in all sorts of places. Also, pretty sure senpai seebs can handle this himself without Ganymede and crew popping in to help out.
...Ganymede??? The hell kind of misplaced allusion is this? What are you even getting at? Edit: oh, did you mean Jupiter’s moon? That was a weird moon to pick, considering the whole, yknow, kidnapped cup-bearer of Olympus thing. Sort of confused the metaphor.
I don't think Greallan is getting picked on. I do think people are putting effort into stuff she's never going to process and then getting upset when it's not processed. I think it's something they get to choose if it's worth it for them, though.
I would also make a distinction from people who are on staff and people acting in a staff capacity: I 100% assume Spock and Beldaran have been participating in this thread as individuals who wanted to help out and then realized that was never going to work out, after which Beldaran dropped out of the conversation and Spock has continued trying to make an impression. I don't think either of them are 'picking on' greallan, and I think it's unfair to say that them posting in this capacity is alienating her when she's admitting she doesn't keep track of who is telling her what. In a different conversation, you could have a point with that, but I feel like with what Greallan has said about her thought process, she isn't going to feel especially targeted by one person in specific because she doesn't distinguish people as individuals.
I took a peek in that sub just to confirm what I thought--that it's a pretty standard point-and-laugh at people saying strange things on the internet. While those things can be fun, I don't think it's wise to draw strong conclusions about the targets of such pointing and laughing because: 1. The sub favors finding the extreme outliers (people who say the wildest things are the funniest) 2. Little context for comments is provided, so it's possible people are not as committed to extreme positions as it may seem. They may just be testing hypotheses. 3. Targets of pointing and laughing sometimes engage in deliberately provocative behavior--"If you're going to say I'm a paste eater, I'll say I'm a double paste eater JUST TO PISS YOU OFF!" Doesn't make a lot of sense, but people do it. 4. Some people post defenses of their behavior out of frustration. This is really a wise thing. More complicated than that, I think.
You seriously want me to go wading through the entire internet? I would have linked the source, but their anti-brigading rules mean that all we have is a screenshot. Well, I did leave this instead responding immediately, but maybe you could explain how I'm supposed to process this because it makes no sense. You're afraid that not confronting someone because you don't know if they're one of the ones who actually need it means they're thinking you're a fat lazy bitch? And a cane means you're still doing everything under your own power, so where does that even come from?
Here's a take: maybe the folk who are being diacouraged and scared off, in Greallan's parlance, are actually people who have been struggling and are instead experiencing profound relief and joy at the knowledge that they're not alone in a 'failure state' of dieting (i.e. regaining, plateauing, not losing, actually gaining due to muscle mass, etc) and that the pressure of trying to maintain an essentially unmaintainable state (weightloss success deemed by many governmental health authorities to be 5% of body mass lost and maintained for 12 months, which is. Not exactly long term. Add to which the facts that many statistical studies of diet and weightloss have heavily massaged figures and even "success states" for participants which are worse than participants' original baseline health due to shifting criteria, and the whole statistical mess used as a measure is mathematically suspect at best in the first place, and it's not exactly cut and dried.) And that those people experiencing this relief like to share their newfound knowledge and improved mental wellbeing, and are able to focus on actually measurable and proven-for-a-given-value methods of improving health, such as good diet and regular gentle exercise without the obsessive scale-gazing...
I'm saying there's a fundamental communication disconnect between you and other people around you, and although people have started (unsuccessfully) to attempt to bridge this gap by being blunter and getting louder, I don't think you're being picked on because in general people are being polite and trying not to read more into what you're saying than what you're actually saying, they are just getting frustrated or being hurt by the things you say. The problem is that what you're actually saying is often pretty bad or almost entirely disconnected from healthy trains of thought, and that when people point out things that make you feel bad you perceive it as bullying. These things are not going to get resolved by talking about them, so I personally don't see much value in people continuing to try, since it only upsets them and you further.
When I say you're never going to process what people are attempting to get you to process, it's not a personal judgement of you, but a statement of fact based on both months of interaction and your own admissions about your mental processes and health problems. I apologize if it came off as judgemental.
More like disabled people are often confronted by others who will, explicitly and without a hint of remorse, tell them that they'll never get any better if they continue using their stick/wheelchair/adaptive assistance devices. Regardless of what it costs the person in question, getting better (not looking so disabled) is oft prioritised over the person's actual immediate physiological, mental and psychological needs. And that's fucked up. Also fucked up is body policing. Yeah, even the stuff where people sneer at others' hair colour or tatts or piercings, all of which are explicitly a choice: It's still wrong to police them. (Legislation to codify this in law is under review in the uk, I believe.)
