Short version: how do you tell if you're actually being annoying or if your brain is doing the usual "you're such an annoying weirdo no one ever wants to talk to you" shit again? Longer version: my reaction varies depending on how much self-confidence I have at any given moment, but generally if someone seems bored/reacts negatively/misunderstands something I've said, I start getting anxious. I know this is a problem. i know the thoughts I have are probably hyperbole and sometimes I can fight them off with logic and "if you're bothering someone they'll just tell you so stop worrying about it." But it doesn't always work. plus it ties into my self-worth and I start feeling like a terrible person who should just not talk or get excited about things anymore. this forum is actually really great for feeling stuff out, but as I got more confident in posting stuff I thought, I should try to give some advice out to other people too. But I keep feeling like I post too hastily, or misunderstand things, or talk too much about myself and don't listen. I have this problem irl, too,where if someone is venting to me I try to relate by talking about similar experiences I've had, but I'm p sure it just makes me look like a dick who makes everything about them. Its just gotten to the point where "enzel you're weird and stupid and need to shut up" thought occurs often enough that I can't tell when its actually necessary or not. I try not to be self-deprecating aloud, because seeing other people do it upsets me plus I know it can come across as manipulative. Its been pointed out to me that I seem to need a lot of validation, but I don't really know what to do about that. Whenever i build up my confidence it inevitably turns into complacency and then I fuck something up and it comes crashing down again. God, I hope some of that made sense.
Yeah, I do this too, so it makes far too much sense. This anxiety is actually super common. I'm still working on this, so take this with a grain of salt, but this is what's been working for me... Try not to be self-deprecating out loud. It's not just that it can come off as manipulative - it's that it makes you look fragile. Most people will avoid telling you things that they think will hurt you, even if you ask them to be honest. (I think this is mostly an allistic thing, autistic folks usually seem to be more literal and more inclined to take these requests at face value, because literalism is symptomatic? Not foolproof though.) So if you want them to actually tell you when you're annoying them, you want to make it clear that telling you is helpful; it's not going to break you, it's going to make you feel better. This is where the 'validation'/'manipulative' thing comes in. People tend to read 'please tell me if I'm being annoying' as 'please tell me that I'm not annoying and you really do want me around', which has a very different meaning. It sounds like what you're actually saying is 'I'm not always good at social norms, so please tell me if I'm doing something that seems wrong, because I want to improve my social skills', and also 'I'm irrationally anxious about people leaving me and finding me annoying'. These may be useful to say to people, rather than 'please tell me if I'm annoying you', because social skills are a skillset that you can improve, whereas annoyingness usually read as a character flaw that you really can't change. It may also help people tell you about 'hey, I don't mind this, but fyi, most people would read this as weird' behaviors, which can also be helpful. 'Annoying' is personal, so they'll only tell you about stuff that annoys them. But yeah, fundamentally, not everybody's going to tell you; sometimes friendships fall apart. That's a sad fact of life, and it's not your fault; happens to everybody. What you can do is spread your friendship net wide - don't depend on one or two people for your mental stability, and keep making friends and interacting with people, as much as your spoons allow. Even if one friendship falls apart, you've made other friends before, and you can make new friends again; having a falling out with one person doesn't mean that you're a bad person or incapable of making friends. (Also most people lose contact with most of their friends from high school and college after they graduate. Everyone's still changing as a person a lot at that age, and everyone's moving to different places. TV/books talk a lot about 'oh yes I had a friend from when I was six that I'm still super close to at fifty!!', but that's much less common than it sounds. It's not a reflection on you as a person if you haven't kept a lot of long-term friendships yet, that's totally normal.) On this forum, I think you're just fine on the advice-giving front. This is a pretty laid-back forum, so nobody's going to jump on you if you say something hastily; you can always change your mind later, and if you give bad advice, other people are likely to come in and give their two cents too. No big deal; this is not a high-drama place. (And yeah, idk what to do about the 'too much about yourself' thing, I thought you were supposed to do that but apparently it's sometimes annoying??? Social norms are hard, I still haven't figured that out yet. It may have something to do with the difference between 'help me figure this out', and 'make soothing noises while I vent', because those are hard to distinguish sometimes but take completely different responses. :P)
addition to the "too much about myself" thing- way back when I volunteered for SPILL, this campus venting email service, their directions actually included "don't give actual advice, but tell anecdotes where you had the same issue and what you did and how it worked" (paraphrased) while I think some of them doing it was lawsuit "we didn't *tell* them to do that, not our fault", since none of us had a degree, I've found it's pretty helpful just because it's set up like: here's my life and/or situation, this is what I did when I had your problem, here's a thing I tried. also, knowing more about soneone induces more familiarity and also,potentially, more chance that they're going to at least listen to your suggestions.
What's extra weird about this is that it's actually a relatively recent development. Like, I've had generalized social anxiety for at least ten years, probably longer, but the middle of high school is when it started getting bad...but even then I didn't feel that self-conscious socially? I made friends fairly easily even if I was shy about approaching them in the first place, and I had a fear of public speaking that I sort of managed, but I didn't suffer from these kind of self-deprecating thoughts until...hard to say. maybe the past year. I wonder if it's because depression made me hard on myself in other areas (feeling bad about laziness, etc) or something else. The only thing related to it I can think of is my fear of phone calls I've discussed elsewhere. so I worried about what adults/authority figures thought of me, but not my peers really. With my last therapist, she used to walk me through things that made me anxious to try to get me to figure out what my overreactions were and logic them into submission, basically. It sort of worked? But now it feels like I'm almost *too* aware. like maybe I just cared less what people thought of me when I was younger. Yeah, I...am generally not openly down on myself, but lately keeping it in means it builds up over time and then I end up venting to someone, usually my significant other, and I'm worried that I'm bothering her about it. It's frustrating that I can't seem to find some kind of way to counter it...I had a feeling there wasn't an easy answer or else a lot of people would have a better time of things, but. :/ I was in a social hobby (Dreamwidth RP, actually) for quite a few years, until about a year ago, I think. I ended up dropping it slowly over time until I stopped, and thinking about it now part of it was that I felt like the environment was so judgmental it became suffocating. Plus, dealing with people irl became more draining somehow, but I felt constantly afraid to say stuff on the internet. A lot of my friends from RP sort of drifted away, or since we didn't have something in common anymore there wasn't much to talk about. That probably didn't help. I feel like the only close friend I have right now *is* the person I'm dating, but I hate putting her in that situation. I have another friend who is busy a lot, and things have gotten a little awkward between us, and a friend at school who is extremely draining to be around (too perky and social, sadly) and then no one online I'm really close to, so I guess it is p strange for me not to have a group of people I can talk to. I feel like I have a bunch of acquaintances whose feelings I can't gauge, no real friends. Typing that out as I realize it is...huh. Kind of a bummer. I also didn't consider myself socially awkward until recently either...I keep wondering if my social skills actually declined since high school from lack of practice?? or something?? I never even realized they were something you had to practice constantly. Or it could just be that I'm more aware of societal expectations now that I'm no longer a kid. but it seems like rl social expectations steal way more spoons than they used to. Just going to work and school is exhausting on that front, and I can't tell if maybe worrying how people see me contributes to that at all ._. Yeah, I am also that person that if someone is venting to me I am all like HERE ARE SOME SOLUTIONS YOU COULD TRY?? I just...I hate seeing people upset, I want to fix problems, but I can never tell if maybe they just want to vent and I should stay quiet or not.
Sorry for the slow response, I ran out of spoons. :T Yeah, I think you have a good handle on what might be making things worse. From what you've said, it sounds to me like depression making you feel guilty, being around judgmental people making you self-conscious, loss of your usual social outlets, developing new ones takes a lot of spoons so you're more overloaded, you have new and tiring responsibilities so you're more overloaded, and you're more aware of the way you come across as an adult so you're taking more spoons so that you can come off 'correctly'. (Kids need fewer spoons for that, because they're less conscious of how they come across; adults want to read adult and professional and put-together.) Short version: You're depressed, so you're self-conscious and guilty, and you're overloaded, so you have fewer spoons for social interaction, which makes you feel and act more awkward. That's a lot of things, so it totally makes sense that you'd be having more trouble than before. The good news is that your reaction is totally normal. There's nothing wrong with you, anyone would have a hard time under those circumstances. The other good news is that those all tend to be things that improve with time, as you get less self-conscious about looking like an adult, and develop a new social group. I think that from what you've said, getting the depression and overload under control are probably the best things to do, right now. Not having a social group sucks, but pushing yourself so hard that you're overloaded and can't-people makes it really hard to keep up with your social commitments or enjoy the social activities you do engage in. For what it's worth, you've been just fine on here; I haven't seen you coming across awkward or inappropriate at all. Also, the forum is full of autistics, so you can probably be literal and just ask what people are feeling, and vent at will. Not the same as close rl friends, but not having to monitor how you come across so closely can help. I am indeed doing most of these same things, if it helps. I was a bit crazy in college, and lost pretty much my whole social group; rebuilding from scratch is hard. =_- (LJ/DWRP fistbump, by the way. I haven't had the spoons for a proper game since the LJ days, but I still kinda miss it.)
no worries, it happens to all of us. phew. It occurs to me that...depression might be a bigger problem than I thought atm. It was manageable for a while so I'm wondering if I just got hit by SAD and had forgotten what being depressed was like. Gahhh. Perky/social school friend is also...way more depressed and anxious and tends to rant about their problems to me, and also get SUPER TUMBLR SOCIAL JUSTICE on me sometimes and I can't...deal. Like I think they're latching onto the ideology because it makes them feel better about the shit they're going through, but they've learned some toxic stuff that I only recently taught myself to disengage from. And I don't have the spoons to discuss/argue with them about it. I am going to a con soon so I'll be seeing some old friends and I'm pretty excited about that, so hopefully that will help. I'm 25 so sometimes I'm like damn, I've been an adult for years why haven't I figured this shit out yet?? But then I remember my toxic mom and her obsession with being socially acceptable and "normal" and "fitting in" and it makes a little more sense. -_- that's a story for another day, though. I appreciate that people are honest on here, tbh...I think part of the reason I'm dating my s.o. is that it's like 90% certain she's autistic and she doesn't do any of the social rule bullshit other people do, haha. (i am also apparently a "maybe" on the seebs diagnosis scale but until i get my anxious butt to the doctor...it could be like three other things.) (yeah, me dropping out of was a combo of life stuff + 2-3 games I joined and really liked eventually dying off and there being no premises I liked, plus the culture just stewing in its own passive aggression. Or the premises I liked were sex games. or something. I've been peeking at the forum RP here but it's not quite what I'm interested in...I do quick aim-rp with the s.o. but that's about it right now.)
