Grocery Shopping Debate: Healthy vs Unhealthy $$$$

So I see a lot of articles floating around the reblogosphere like this one or this one or this one that claims that buying "healthy" food is more expensive than "healthy" food. But then there's articles like these (Time, HelpGuide, or CNN blog) that state otherwise. Indeed, I have seen well-thought-out arguments about how vegan and vegetarian diets can be less expensive than carnivorous diets. But are carnivorous diets healthy? And that's one of the issues of this argument, isn't it?

We must define by what we mean has "healthy". Is a food physcially, nutritionally healthy or are we categorizing food by emotional healthfulness (so comfort food).

Another item that makes this argument dificult is that access to food is not homogenous in the United States or in the world for that matter. Some cities/countries have access to certain fruits and veggies all year that other cities/countries do not. This changes prices on things.

But I want to hear your thoughts? What are your personal experiences in the checkout lane? Do you think buying fruits/veggies (the conventional form of "healthy" here in terms of nutrition) is more expensive than hopping down the "junk food" aisle? (I put junk food in quotes because even if it is void if most nutrition, it can be the only resource of food in food deserts as well as being a comfort food that helps someone emotionally, thus this food is not strictly "junk").

 

ime depending on where you live in the US, 'healthy' can mean 'getting enough calories to get yourself through the day' because that's the best you can hope for on a limited income. (been there.) Prices of fruit and veg in much of the US are astronomical compared to where I am, and Finland has some of the highest food prices in the EU.

Furthermore, healthy varies wildly depending on individual needs. If I tried to eat according to most 'healthy' guidelines I'd be sick in one way or another, whether it be from blood sugar problems or digestive issues. Other people need to get calories into their bodies, regardless of the source, because they have an illness that makes eating disastrously difficult and fussing about micronutrients causes them more harm than good. (On that note, there are no foods 'void' of nutrition. Things that are void of nutrition are things like cardboard, that human bodies cannot process.)

 

I live in an area where there are two full supermarkets within a 1-mile radius and a few more slightly farther away. I also live in an area where fresh produce is relatively inexpensive. My diet is omnivorous, but a person in this area who chose to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet, and who had a vehicle or was physically able to get to one of those stores without one, and who had the time and spoons to prepare that fresh produce every day, could probably do so.

I also recognize that I am really fucking lucky to live where I live and to be able to get to those stores without a car and to have the time and spoons to cook my own food more days than not, and using my experiences as a metric to judge the dietary choices of a person whose circumstances were different would be a spectacular dick move.

 

As noted, fruits and veggies are way more expensive than anything but the fanciest foods. Meat substitutes are also way more expensive than actual meats, on the vegan subject, which I'll talk about more in a moment. The cheapest stuff is grains, and even that gets expensive quickly, doubly so if you try to get the "healthy" types like whoe wheat or whatever. And given that the current health food craze is "cut grains out as much as you can, best if you can cut them entirely," then that rapidly gets SUPER expensive.

The cheapest way to eat, IME (and I'm one of our resident homeless folks) is boxed dinners and other forms of ~family~ meal. Hamburger helper and fried rice made with bought-in-bulk rice is one of the only things I can do to feed myself on $5 a day (which is the average food stamps award). Fruit becomes a treat - so do fresh vegetables, though frozen ones are usually easier to buy. Thank goodness food stamps also lets you buy food-plants to grow yourself, because probably 80% of the fresh food in my diet comes from that.

Anyway. Vegan diets. Are expensive as heck, first of all, especially if you're looking to include meat substitutes. Which, you need to either do that, add protein supplements, or eat a bloody fortune in nuts. And for some people, like me, even that wouldn't cut it. My depression is hugely affected by my protein intake - if I go two days without meat, I actually do feel it. I had a burger this morning which was my first animal protein since a sandwich two days ago and my energy levels went up within an hour. So, it's definitely super unhealthy for a significant portion of the population.

 

I was trying to figure out things to say about comparative cost of "healthy"/"unhealthy" food in different places but it turns out I'm too tired, however! This is a really fascinating tool I just found for comparing costs of living. I put in London, where I live, and Denver CO (picked 100% at random). Turns out protein is cheaper in Denver, fresh produce and starches more expensive. And London probably has the highest food prices in the UK. (Because of store rental cost, not availability.)

 

@Starcrossedsky, I know that feeling. Boxed rice and frozen veggies are *filling,* but I need meat to keep my energy levels up. Ironically meat is, for some reason, much more expensive in my area than the fruit and fresh vegetables my mom and I usually buy. We have to carefully budget how much we spend on chicken and pork each month, much less beef (which is my preferred meat) and I've been feeling it. Not to the point of getting sick, thankfully, but compared to a few years ago when I could buy a six or eight pack of cheap eye of round steaks and fry up one or two every day, I feel much less energetic. So aside from "hey I know that feel" I bring this up because it represents a lack I've noticed for a long time in vegan or "eat healthy" discourse; little to no acknowledgement that at least some people actually NEED red meat to feel properly healthy.

 

I´m really glad to hear other people have the issue of needing to eat meat. (Well, it sucks to have but it´s nice to know this is not just in my head.) I´ve had a lot of militant vegan/vegetarians straight out accuse me of lying when I brought it up. For me, it shows up as just never feeling full, as well as bad mood.

 

I seem to vaguely recall seeing a vegan somewhere refer to this kind of relationship with meat as an "addiction," which given the lack of scientific backing might be WORSE than calling us liars because of the implied disrespect to actual addicts. :/ Humans are omnivores. It makes sense that some people would have metabolisms that get more use out of meat than plants, or vice versa. (My mom, for example, feels the same way about carbs. She needs her bread to feel full and happy.)

 

I need to eat meat because of blood problems, otherwise I start fainting all over the place. Not good.

 

@mazarinedrake I´ve heard militant vegans refer to meat (or dairy) addiction, but I never heard it applied to that particular issue. Seemed more to weaponize the implication that vegan = pure and good, whereas omnivore = addicticed = moral failing. Which yeah, is pretty awful.

@emythos Ergh, that sounds awful.

In terms of money, the cheapest diet here is noodles or rice. As cheap but more spoon expensive is flour (oatmeal optional) + baking powder and water to make a sort of bread. (Guess who´s lived off of 5 euros a week for a bit) Vegetables, fresh or otherwise, are medium expensive and meat and cheese are both fairly pricey.

 

@littlemissCodeless yeeeah, it is a pain in the ass. I wasn't eating enough during high school and I ended up being pretty much known schoolwide as "that girl who reads too much and keeps collapsing every week."

 

WRT meat expense, could you order online? I know most online places are bulk so it may be an upfront cost but easier long term? Unfortunately all the ones I know are sources for raw fed animals, but I know there ARE People Food online butchers.

 

One of the staples in my house is tuna rice. Rice cooker for white rice. Open a can of tuna, mix it with a tiny bit of mayo. Mix together a bit of soy sauce, sesame oil, and a few drops of mirin sake. Put cooked rice in bowl, put some tuna on top, drizzle the sauce on it. Tasty, simple enough we can usually do it, and the tuna helps with some food needs.


*Edit. Drizzle, not sizzle.

 

huh, why darker hair on arms?

 

do you mean OTC iron supplements, or a pill beyond that? I find OTC iron supplements help some but nowhere near enough, hence interest.

my blood iron levels repeatedly test as fine but then I get Very Clearly Anaemic Symptoms which are lessened by copious amounts of red meat so idfk

 

Telling me i'm addicted to meat is the fastest way to get me to fuck out of a conversation tbh. I know what addiction is, you dumb motherfuckers, "malnutrition" and "addiction" are not the same thing.

(The Aunt was in the addicted to dairy camp, ftr. I hate The Aunt.)

It'd probably be too expensive to ship any distance. Refrigerated Shipping is Hell unless you have an industrial budget.

 

It's worth it to remember that there are other anaemias than just iron deficiency anaemia. If you're worried about it, you need to get lab tests that actually tell you whether your red blood cells are low. Also, whether they are the correct size, and whether your vitamin B12 is up to snuff and such.