How do job application?

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by Mala, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    So I know basically jack shit about how to properly apply for jobs and googling gives conflicting results that assume I have a career

    Do i absolutely have to include a resume with an online application? How do I make one when I have no job history and no skills relavent to the job I'm applying for?

    Do I need a cover letter? What even is a cover letter? How do I find that much about myself to write about?

    How much honesty is appropriate for "why do you want to work here?"

    Do I follow up with a phone call or not?

    ?????????
     
  2. Chiomi

    Chiomi Master of Disaster

    Don't follow up with a phone call!

    In an online application, if it lets you include a resume, do it, if it doesn't, don't stress. Here are tips about doing a resume with no real history: https://www.livecareer.com/career-tips/resumes/no-experience-resume

    A cover letter is how you are introducing yourself. In retail - which is what I know from the hiring side, and am extrapolating as relevant to other entry level positions - short is better. Mechanics matter, and having a salutation and signoff. Mostly put something like 'i saw your ad for [position] in [place] (or if you were told by a friend, say that) and think i'd be a great fit because [1 or 2 reasons, with reference to the ad if possible]. I have [x] and [y] skills, and [something relevant to company, like 'play video games' for an application to Gamestop']. I have attached my resume, and look forward to hearing from you soon.'

    A fair amount of honesty is appropriate, but not to the level of admitting desperation.
     
    • Like x 2
  3. ectoBiologist

    ectoBiologist I'm a wise guy

    Do follow up with a phone call. It shows interest. If a place doesn't want to hire you because you showed interest then they probably aren't worth working for. Many jobs that I got was because I followed up with phone calls and bugged the absolute piss out of them. Basically, some of the best advice I've gotten and what has worked for me in the past, is to find a place you really want to work at and keep at it.

    For instance: I wanted to work for this organization in my area that specializes in mental health. I sent them my resume in person, emailed them my resume, emailed them again asking if they got my resume (and attached it again just in case). I then called every couple of weeks. Eventually I got the interview. And now I work there almost full-time.

    A resume can have volunteer things, projects from school, stuff like that if you don't have direct work experience at all. If you don't have that, then I would highly suggest finding places that interest you and volunteer there. Sometimes volunteership or internships can lead to work. And this helps boost your resume. Even if you're just volunteering one day out of the week or even two days out of the month. I currently volunteer for a free clinic and I only show up once or twice a month, but since I put my all in it it has become a valuable reference for me and invaluable work experience. If you have any free time to squeeze in some volunteer work, especially in the field you want to work in, do it. It helps with networking and resume building.

    A cover letter is like what Chiomi said. I don't really have much to add to that bit.

    For the question "Why do you want to work here" try to highlight values that company upholds and how you found that attractive to you. You could also mention anything you would like about the job -- it's in my area of interest, it uses skills I already have (which are blah blah blah -- great way to segue the interview into boosting your skills). If you just want the job because of a paycheck, sometimes it pays to be honest about it, but typically err on the side of caution and try to answer the question in a way that makes your interviewer feel good about working at their job and makes you look good too. But honestly? I told someone that I just needed a paycheck and I got hired, but then again this was a seasonal job for the holidays so I could be honest because they were hiring seasonal workers, not permanent people.

    As for "not having relevant skills for a job" try to be creative. Sometimes we overlook our accomplishments and skills and don't realize that the project we researched in 10th grade on green beans could actually be constructive in bartending. Let me show you how (which this works better in interviews but you can translate this into bullet points for resumes too)

    I have time management skills - there was a deadline that the project in 10th grade was due, and I turned in my project on time -- and even got a high mark on it! (leave this out if you didn't get a high mark, but I would imagine you would pick a project that you did well on to highlight in the interview or on your resume).
    I am creative - everyone else in my class chose mediocre cliche research topics but I chose green beans, I'm sure when you train me to make drinks I can use my creativity to make new cocktails for the bar or help with merchandising and arranging things at the bar to help sell more drinks. Creativity is important in the workplace for it allows for encouraging sales and problem solving.
    I have writing/communication skills - I can communicate well and clearly to the team (if you could write a paper on green beans you can communicate with coworkers and to customers)

    It's all how you spin it. You have skills, I'm sure of it. It's all about making it fit the job and make it sound relevant even if at first glance it intuitively doesn't feel that way.

    Good luck! Sorry for the wall of text.
     
  4. ZeroEsper

    ZeroEsper Well-Known Member

    I agree with @ectoBiologist on almost everything, except there's one point I'd like to contest from personal experience - I have never gotten a job I gave a follow-up call to. That said! My experience is different because I was applying for retail jobs. My understanding, based on reading some online articles online because I will eventually need to know how to apply for non-retail jobs, is that it's fine to call once, but in general hiring managers may not want to field multiple calls from you, so if it's been about 10 days since you've called and you're still interested and want to do something for the application, you might want to stick with email. Also, my general understanding is that a lot of retail places (if you wind up applying there) with entry-level positions don't require a call. At least, none of my jobs ever have.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Aya-non

    Aya-non Well-Known Member

    Here's some good cover letter advice. I'm currently in the job-application runaround too, so I've been thinking about this stuff a lot...I think the best advice I got, about cover letters, was to make the experience paragraph kind of like a really short story about where you learned different things. Like, I dunno, "I learned to operate a register and deal with customer problems when I worked at Kinko's" (disclaimer, I never worked at Kinko's) so that it's a little less boring for you to write and the employer to read.

    Something that I've been advised to do, but is also kind of exhausting, honestly, is edit the cover letter to job descriptions. Like, put in the company name, mention why you wanna work for them (read: vaguely true but exaggerated flattery, probably), maybe mention things from the job description if they aren't normally in your cover letter. But that can take some energy and it's probably not as essential for retail jobs, so I think you can decide whether to do it or not.

    The nice thing about having a cover letter is that you can kind of explain yourself...like, if you maybe have less retail experience than they want but you worked a register for however-many years while doing food service or another job outside of retail, the cover letter is where you get to talk about that. So, if nothing else, I'd recommend having the cover letter for any job where you're not positive you 100% fit the description.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. ZeroEsper

    ZeroEsper Well-Known Member

    Definitely edit the coverletter! It sucks, but it's the first thing an employer sees, and if it's super generic, they're gonna feel like you don't care.
     
    • Like x 2
  7. ectoBiologist

    ectoBiologist I'm a wise guy

    @ZeroEsper both retail jobs I got I was able to be part of the interviewing pool because I called to check they got my application. They asked who I was, I told them my name, and that's where it sticks. It shows interest. You aren't calling to see about /getting/ the job, but just to follow up to make sure they got your application. When I applied to my school's computer center, I called to make sure they got my application and it turned out it got lost! So I re-submitted it and guess what? Interview and then hired. It pays to call and check up, epsecially if it's a place you really really wanna work at.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. Chiomi

    Chiomi Master of Disaster

    On the flip side, the last shop I worked in we discarded the resumes of people who called us, because we'd asked for email correspondence in our ad and it was annoying - and showed they couldn't follow instructions. Like, there are obviously circumstances where it works well to call, but it's far from universal. This is where it might be good to gauge the business on an individual level.

    Big chain store? Worth following up if it's an online application. Small business? If they replied to your initial email, don't follow up. If they didn't and it's been two weeks, feel free to email again - making reference to the fact that you applied before. Paying attention to ads pays off: a lot of businesses will specify how they want you to contact them.
     
    • Like x 4
  9. ZeroEsper

    ZeroEsper Well-Known Member

    I hate to add to the confusion, but the store I work at (large department store) also doesn't require calls. It won't disqualify you, but when you call, the managers have to leave the store, go to the back, and log into the system to get to the application. And that's assuming you can get through to them. However they will also call you pretty quickly, so it's good to wait for a little while - there's a good chance they'll call.
     
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